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Corona
Feb 26, 2021 22:15:36 GMT
Post by Van Ginger on Feb 26, 2021 22:15:36 GMT
The big pharma companies are the power, Johnson is merely a pawn in the game. He gets a nice back hander like they all do. How do they afford to pay backhanders to Johnson when they're selling at cost price? AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson are committed to not making a profit during the pandemic. Tetchy reckons Pfizer are doing likewise. So who's making a profit on vaccines and can afford to pay Johnson off? These firms are not creating pandemics to profit from vaccine sales. Pure fantasy to suggest that they are. If you want to know what naughtiness Big Pharma are actually up to, you could read Bad Pharma by Ben Goldacre. It's pretty long, and there's not many gags, but it is informative. I do agree with you that they aren't creating pandemics, but they will make money eventually. During the pandemic, will probably mean they wont profit this year. THese vaccines are likely going to be annual. They'll rake it in soon. Hopefully some of our governments early backing of Oxford ( who then teamed up with AZ) has some way of raking back money from future profits.
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Post by jdc on Feb 26, 2021 22:17:58 GMT
That looks like it was put together by somebody in comms, so it won’t have all the detail on it. A question for you (and anyone else who is seemingly unperturbed by all this extra governmental control): if, as seems highly likely, some form of permanent Covid tracking is enforced, be it passports or scannable apps to gain entry to premises, do you think it will stay with just Covid or do you think over time more things will be tacked on to it? If the answer’s yes, does that prospect bother you? If the answer’s no, what gives you that confidence? If you don’t believe any such measures will be brought in, firstly again what gives you that confidence? Secondly if they are brought in can we revisit the first part of my post? Depends what their focus groups say. If vaccine passports are popular with voters, then they'll be introduced. If they're unpopular but the govt wants to introduce them then it'll come down to how much they want to introduce them versus how many votes they reckon the passports would cost them. And if Labour come out in favour, the govt won't need to worry about a backbench rebellion. Tacking things on wouldn't be new - we used to 'gold-plate' EU directives when we turned them into English & Welsh regulations. We'd add on whatever extra bits we fancied and if anyone complained we'd blame the EU directives. Something else we like doing in this country is misusing existing legislation. See e.g. the 100,000 stop-and-searches under the terrorism act that produced 0 arrests for terrorism offences. Even if the govt don't find a way to misuse legislation, the police probably will.
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Post by Neshead on Feb 26, 2021 22:25:35 GMT
How do they afford to pay backhanders to Johnson when they're selling at cost price? AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson are committed to not making a profit during the pandemic. Tetchy reckons Pfizer are doing likewise. So who's making a profit on vaccines and can afford to pay Johnson off? These firms are not creating pandemics to profit from vaccine sales. Pure fantasy to suggest that they are. If you want to know what naughtiness Big Pharma are actually up to, you could read Bad Pharma by Ben Goldacre. It's pretty long, and there's not many gags, but it is informative. I do agree with you that they aren't creating pandemics, but they will make money eventually. During the pandemic, will probably mean they wont profit this year. THese vaccines are likely going to be annual. They'll rake it in soon. Hopefully some of our governments early backing of Oxford ( who then teamed up with AZ) has some way of raking back money from future profits. I never said they created the pandemic but if anyone thinks there ain't no profit to be made out of this then folk are more naive than i give people on here credit for.
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Post by jdc on Feb 26, 2021 22:40:11 GMT
I do agree with you that they aren't creating pandemics, but they will make money eventually. During the pandemic, will probably mean they wont profit this year. THese vaccines are likely going to be annual. They'll rake it in soon. Hopefully some of our governments early backing of Oxford ( who then teamed up with AZ) has some way of raking back money from future profits. I never said they created the pandemic but if anyone thinks there ain't no profit to be made out of this then folk are more naive than i give people on here credit for. What was it the pharma companies were behind then? Are you arguing that Johnson's chaotic bungling, mad decisions, and u-turns were all part of some big pharma grand strategy and they were directing the whole mess all this time? How did Johnson's chaos help them? They're going to sell the same vaccines to countries all round the world that had completely different approaches to Johnson, so I'm struggling to see how it has.
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Corona
Feb 27, 2021 5:18:33 GMT
Post by Hobhead on Feb 27, 2021 5:18:33 GMT
A question for you (and anyone else who is seemingly unperturbed by all this extra governmental control): if, as seems highly likely, some form of permanent Covid tracking is enforced, be it passports or scannable apps to gain entry to premises, do you think it will stay with just Covid or do you think over time more things will be tacked on to it? If the answer’s yes, does that prospect bother you? If the answer’s no, what gives you that confidence? If you don’t believe any such measures will be brought in, firstly again what gives you that confidence? Secondly if they are brought in can we revisit the first part of my post? Depends what their focus groups say. If vaccine passports are popular with voters, then they'll be introduced. If they're unpopular but the govt wants to introduce them then it'll come down to how much they want to introduce them versus how many votes they reckon the passports would cost them. And if Labour come out in favour, the govt won't need to worry about a backbench rebellion. But surely the returns churned out by focus groups are the result of asking a populace driven by the government’s strategy of compliance by fear and therefore skewed? People might well vote for vaccine passports out of fear or a sense of doing the right thing but as time passes and opinions change, what are the chances of them being revoked? None would be my guess. In fact I’d be amazed if they didn’t widen in scope and Covid was just a foot in the door. It’s time like this I really envy the Americans their constitution. They are so much more wary of any erosion or alteration of their rights it’s untrue. We’re miles behind them in that regard. So there’s plenty of examples of our government and security forces adding to or misusing legislation but it seems that so many people have a huge Covid blind spot. They’ve become so convinced that the virus is hiding on every tub of Lurpak, suspended menacingly in particles in the air or waiting to leap from every passing stranger and start the fourteen day clock to the end of their existence that they’ll sombrely and sagely nod through every arse fingering Boris and his merry gang of megalomaniacs cook up. To me it’s terrifying. We’ve got the perfect storm here with some very nasty potential and we’re left relying on an unscrupulous government and a supine population to set the limits.
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Corona
Feb 27, 2021 9:07:07 GMT
via mobile
Post by edin on Feb 27, 2021 9:07:07 GMT
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Post by jdc on Feb 27, 2021 14:59:46 GMT
Depends what their focus groups say. If vaccine passports are popular with voters, then they'll be introduced. If they're unpopular but the govt wants to introduce them then it'll come down to how much they want to introduce them versus how many votes they reckon the passports would cost them. And if Labour come out in favour, the govt won't need to worry about a backbench rebellion. But surely the returns churned out by focus groups are the result of asking a populace driven by the government’s strategy of compliance by fear and therefore skewed? People might well vote for vaccine passports out of fear or a sense of doing the right thing but as time passes and opinions change, what are the chances of them being revoked? None would be my guess. In fact I’d be amazed if they didn’t widen in scope and Covid was just a foot in the door. It’s time like this I really envy the Americans their constitution. They are so much more wary of any erosion or alteration of their rights it’s untrue. We’re miles behind them in that regard. So there’s plenty of examples of our government and security forces adding to or misusing legislation but it seems that so many people have a huge Covid blind spot. They’ve become so convinced that the virus is hiding on every tub of Lurpak, suspended menacingly in particles in the air or waiting to leap from every passing stranger and start the fourteen day clock to the end of their existence that they’ll sombrely and sagely nod through every arse fingering Boris and his merry gang of megalomaniacs cook up. To me it’s terrifying. We’ve got the perfect storm here with some very nasty potential and we’re left relying on an unscrupulous government and a supine population to set the limits. Survey here found 2/3 in favour of vaccine passports, at least for foreign travel: www.independent.co.uk/news/health/vaccine-passports-uk-adults-poll-b1804176.html (The WHO have come out against them, making the same point I made about not knowing if the vaccines prevent transmission but also raising the issue of discrimination.) Ada Lovelace Institute has summaries for different countries: www.adalovelaceinstitute.org/project/international-monitor-vaccine-passports-covid-status-apps/ Our summary is much longer than the others (we're about 2/3 the way down the page, ctrl+f for Harding will get you to the first para). Looks like there's a lot of interest in vaccine passports for foreign travel but they're currently denying that they'll have domestic vaccine passports - they're saying they're more likely to use the shitty lateral flow tests than vaccine passports for allowing people into clubs and restaurants. Oh, and it turns out the govt has given £450k to 8 schemes looking at vaccine passports, apps, etc. Some of the schemes and amounts of funding are listed in the article. I reckon we'll get them for international travel. Still not sure about domestic use. Whatever we do get won't be getting revoked any time soon. I bet we don't repeal any of the legislation we've enacted in the last 12 months either.
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Post by jdc on Feb 28, 2021 17:06:12 GMT
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Post by Neshead on Mar 1, 2021 10:12:12 GMT
Another day, another supposed variant. They need to read the comments, less and less people give a fuck anymore.
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Corona
Mar 1, 2021 10:22:57 GMT
Post by bantam147 on Mar 1, 2021 10:22:57 GMT
The whole control system is playing out just like the 'loons' such as David Icke have been saying. I'm past caring that people just take the piss when you try and make anything like that sort of point. And yet every bit of it is playing out.
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Corona
Mar 1, 2021 20:04:09 GMT
via mobile
Post by Attentive Onlooker on Mar 1, 2021 20:04:09 GMT
If deaths continue to drop at the current rate we'll be in single figures by the end of March.
How do they think they'll keep us locked down until June based on that?
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Corona
Mar 1, 2021 20:26:29 GMT
Post by bantam147 on Mar 1, 2021 20:26:29 GMT
If deaths continue to drop at the current rate we'll be in single figures by the end of March. How do they think they'll keep us locked down until June based on that? ‘We can’t risk going back to hundreds of deaths a day’.
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Post by tetchyarse on Mar 2, 2021 9:28:16 GMT
The talk of variants is just utter bollocks, it's what viruses do. But it gives the Tories a get-out for their appalling governance, and the people seem to be lapping it up, so expect to see more of it. It's not that their incompetence means that lockdown has lasted 6 months longer than it needed to, oh no.
Here everyone is losing their shit because there's a cluster of about 50 cases brought in by a ferry worker. It's looking like lockdown. There's one person in hospital. But at least we here have had freedom in between the clusters, and if a short sharp lockdown is needed to keep that freedom then meh.
Truthfully they've dawdled for a good 10 days, probably because the Chief was on Sky lapping up the praise about how we're managing, and annoyingly the lockdown will probably need to be longer than if they'd just done it a week ago.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Mar 2, 2021 11:08:18 GMT
The talk of variants is just utter bollocks, it's what viruses do. But it gives the Tories a get-out for their appalling governance, and the people seem to be lapping it up, so expect to see more of it. It's not that their incompetence means that lockdown has lasted 6 months longer than it needed to, oh no. Here everyone is losing their shit because there's a cluster of about 50 cases brought in by a ferry worker. It's looking like lockdown. There's one person in hospital. But at least we here have had freedom in between the clusters, and if a short sharp lockdown is needed to keep that freedom then meh. Truthfully they've dawdled for a good 10 days, probably because the Chief was on Sky lapping up the praise about how we're managing, and annoyingly the lockdown will probably need to be longer than if they'd just done it a week ago. This first paragraph sums up my thoughts quite well actually. It’s not that I’m not concerned about losing liberties, it’s more that I’m confused why people aren’t fucking fuming at the government for the kind of incompetence that would get anybody else sacked on the spot (Johnson, Harding, Williamson). That and the banana republic corruption (Jenrick, Hancock, Sunak).
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Corona
Mar 2, 2021 11:37:28 GMT
via mobile
Post by Attentive Onlooker on Mar 2, 2021 11:37:28 GMT
We went from last March to December with not a single mention of variants. Since December they've been like buses.
Are we supposed to believe that this virus suddenly decided to start mutating like crazy in time for Christmas?
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Corona
Mar 2, 2021 11:38:03 GMT
via mobile
Post by Attentive Onlooker on Mar 2, 2021 11:38:03 GMT
If deaths continue to drop at the current rate we'll be in single figures by the end of March. How do they think they'll keep us locked down until June based on that? ‘We can’t risk going back to hundreds of deaths a day’. That can't hold for long in a vaccinated society.
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Corona
Mar 2, 2021 11:47:05 GMT
Post by bantam147 on Mar 2, 2021 11:47:05 GMT
‘We can’t risk going back to hundreds of deaths a day’. That can't hold for long in a vaccinated society. Wanna bet? People are stupid, pliable, easily manipulated.
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Corona
Mar 2, 2021 11:59:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by rahicscissorbudget on Mar 2, 2021 11:59:29 GMT
We went from last March to December with not a single mention of variants. Since December they've been like buses. Are we supposed to believe that this virus suddenly decided to start mutating like crazy in time for Christmas? This article from last may disagrees: www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid19-mutations-strains-variantsThere was plenty of talk about variants, that’s partly how they knew were it was coming from. I think they were just weak variants so they weren’t arsed.
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Corona
Mar 2, 2021 12:05:14 GMT
via mobile
Post by Attentive Onlooker on Mar 2, 2021 12:05:14 GMT
We went from last March to December with not a single mention of variants. Since December they've been like buses. Are we supposed to believe that this virus suddenly decided to start mutating like crazy in time for Christmas? This article from last may disagrees: www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid19-mutations-strains-variantsThere was plenty of talk about variants, that’s partly how they knew were it was coming from. I think they were just weak variants so they weren’t arsed. You think? Were they or weren't they? And why are they now all "strong" variants? Your statement throws up more questions than it answers.
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Post by Hobhead on Mar 2, 2021 13:06:00 GMT
The talk of variants is just utter bollocks, it's what viruses do. But it gives the Tories a get-out for their appalling governance, and the people seem to be lapping it up, so expect to see more of it. It's not that their incompetence means that lockdown has lasted 6 months longer than it needed to, oh no. Let’s all be thankful we’ve got a robust opposition.
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