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Corona
Jan 14, 2021 6:47:36 GMT
Post by Hobhead on Jan 14, 2021 6:47:36 GMT
Is a vaccine gonna get us out of lockdown if it doesn’t stop you being contagious? Nope. This thing will become endemic like any number of viruses before it. The fact that there are so many similar viruses out there competing in the same market might even mean there’s no discernible difference in excess deaths as a result of it - what it takes flu or pneumonia would have bagged later anyway. We either learn to live with it, like we have a multitude of viruses, or we can carry on like this forever.
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Corona
Jan 14, 2021 10:44:13 GMT
Post by tetchyarse on Jan 14, 2021 10:44:13 GMT
Is a vaccine gonna get us out of lockdown if it doesn’t stop you being contagious? It's all about the theory of herd immunity. If enough people have antibodies to a virus then it doesn't matter if the virus remains contagious, because the pool of people it can spread to is very small. There are two ways of getting antibodies- you can be vaccinated, or you can have caught the virus.
Chickenpox is an example of antibodies through catching the virus. Chickenpox is very rare in adults because most people catch it as children and you can't catch it twice, but those who don't catch it as children are at greater risk of complications later. Smallpox and TB were pretty much eradicated due to vaccination.
Question is how long the antibodies last. With chickenpox they basically last forever. But with flu they don't.
As it's more like flu, it is likely that it will remain with us forever, with minor variations causing the occasional big outbreak. The flu virus that caused the 1918-1920 pandemic is still with us, but it has evolved into a less brutal strain. Same with the flu variations that caused pandemics in 1958 and 1968.
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Corona
Jan 14, 2021 10:52:46 GMT
Post by tetchyarse on Jan 14, 2021 10:52:46 GMT
There's a bit of a difference between a medical professional wearing a medical mask and some nose-picking gomper wearing a scrap of cloth. The medical masks probably help a bit. Those cheap shitty facemasks I buy to avoid getting grief from shopworkers or the old bill probably do fuck all. Here's a pre-coronavirus paper on masks: bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577"An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%." "This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated." Any possible slight benefits that masks might convey are more than negated by behaviour. Once worn the disposable ones need binning and the cloth ones washing. People wear the same mask over and over again, they touch objects around them then adjust the mask before repeating the process several times. Used incorrectly a mask simply becomes a sheet of germs that’s placed over a person’s mouth to create a warm, damp Petri dish of shite to be breathed through but anyone not playing make believe is a cunt. Masks are bollocks, brought in to give people the illusion of control. We must do something, this is something, therefore we must do this. It's the same fear that means 20 years after 9/11 we still have to take our shoes off at the airport. The "evidence" is that in countries with mask wearing the death levels are lower. Conveniently they don't look at countries like the UK where infection rates are now higher with masks than they were before.
But I really don't have much time for the gobby ones who won't wear them and then make a big song and dance about it in Tesco, or who pretend they're exempt. It's a stupid rule but life is full of stupid rules, just bloody put on one, even if you think it's bollocks.
Masks are bollocks though.
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Corona
Jan 14, 2021 11:02:38 GMT
Post by Hobhead on Jan 14, 2021 11:02:38 GMT
Any possible slight benefits that masks might convey are more than negated by behaviour. Once worn the disposable ones need binning and the cloth ones washing. People wear the same mask over and over again, they touch objects around them then adjust the mask before repeating the process several times. Used incorrectly a mask simply becomes a sheet of germs that’s placed over a person’s mouth to create a warm, damp Petri dish of shite to be breathed through but anyone not playing make believe is a cunt. Masks are bollocks, brought in to give people the illusion of control. We must do something, this is something, therefore we must do this. It's the same fear that means 20 years after 9/11 we still have to take our shoes off at the airport. The "evidence" is that in countries with mask wearing the death levels are lower. Conveniently they don't look at countries like the UK where infection rates are now higher with masks than they were before. But I really don't have much time for the gobby ones who won't wear them and then make a big song and dance about it in Tesco, or who pretend they're exempt. It's a stupid rule but life is full of stupid rules, just bloody put on one, even if you think it's bollocks. Masks are bollocks though.
I’m really struggling to understand your position here. You seem to be saying that masks are a load of shit, they don’t work and they cause problems you wouldn’t otherwise have had but, at the same time, everyone should wear one. I won’t wear one but I don’t make a song and dance about it. If someone wants to challenge me then fine, I’m happy to have a chat about it, but I won’t be harassed and harangued in public. Anybody thinks that all this is an an excuse to give me shit in a shop is going to get told to fuck right off.
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Corona
Jan 14, 2021 11:11:57 GMT
Post by tetchyarse on Jan 14, 2021 11:11:57 GMT
Masks are bollocks, brought in to give people the illusion of control. We must do something, this is something, therefore we must do this. It's the same fear that means 20 years after 9/11 we still have to take our shoes off at the airport. The "evidence" is that in countries with mask wearing the death levels are lower. Conveniently they don't look at countries like the UK where infection rates are now higher with masks than they were before. But I really don't have much time for the gobby ones who won't wear them and then make a big song and dance about it in Tesco, or who pretend they're exempt. It's a stupid rule but life is full of stupid rules, just bloody put on one, even if you think it's bollocks. Masks are bollocks though.
I’m really struggling to understand your position here. You seem to be saying that masks are a load of shit, they don’t work and they cause problems you wouldn’t otherwise have had but, at the same time, everyone should wear one. I have to wear one even though I don't really think they make any difference. Everyone else has to wear one regardless of whether they think they make no difference or whether they think they're a magical Covid forcefield. So I don't get why those who march round Tesco without a mask, arguing about it with shop staff, think they're special.
The ones who argue with shop staff and refuse to wear them are as bad as the GRANNY KILLER gomping mental cases.
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Corona
Jan 14, 2021 12:11:08 GMT
via mobile
Post by Bacon on Jan 14, 2021 12:11:08 GMT
I’m really struggling to understand your position here. You seem to be saying that masks are a load of shit, they don’t work and they cause problems you wouldn’t otherwise have had but, at the same time, everyone should wear one. I have to wear one even though I don't really think they make any difference. Everyone else has to wear one regardless of whether they think they make no difference or whether they think they're a magical Covid forcefield. So I don't get why those who march round Tesco without a mask, arguing about it with shop staff, think they're special.
The ones who argue with shop staff and refuse to wear them are as bad as the GRANNY KILLER gomping mental cases.
It comes down to whether you're a cunt or not.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Jan 14, 2021 12:26:25 GMT
Masks are bollocks, brought in to give people the illusion of control. We must do something, this is something, therefore we must do this. It's the same fear that means 20 years after 9/11 we still have to take our shoes off at the airport. The "evidence" is that in countries with mask wearing the death levels are lower. Conveniently they don't look at countries like the UK where infection rates are now higher with masks than they were before. But I really don't have much time for the gobby ones who won't wear them and then make a big song and dance about it in Tesco, or who pretend they're exempt. It's a stupid rule but life is full of stupid rules, just bloody put on one, even if you think it's bollocks. Masks are bollocks though.
I’m really struggling to understand your position here. You seem to be saying that masks are a load of shit, they don’t work and they cause problems you wouldn’t otherwise have had but, at the same time, everyone should wear one. I won’t wear one but I don’t make a song and dance about it. If someone wants to challenge me then fine, I’m happy to have a chat about it, but I won’t be harassed and harangued in public. Anybody thinks that all this is an an excuse to give me shit in a shop is going to get told to fuck right off. I think his point is basically pick your battles; yeah they’re probably a load of shite, but it’s not like it’s a massive inconvenience.
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Corona
Jan 14, 2021 15:34:35 GMT
Post by Hobhead on Jan 14, 2021 15:34:35 GMT
I’m really struggling to understand your position here. You seem to be saying that masks are a load of shit, they don’t work and they cause problems you wouldn’t otherwise have had but, at the same time, everyone should wear one. I won’t wear one but I don’t make a song and dance about it. If someone wants to challenge me then fine, I’m happy to have a chat about it, but I won’t be harassed and harangued in public. Anybody thinks that all this is an an excuse to give me shit in a shop is going to get told to fuck right off. I think his point is basically pick your battles; yeah they’re probably a load of shite, but it’s not like it’s a massive inconvenience. But I don’t understand that either. If they don’t work, make negligible difference or make matters worse then why are we all engaging in this massive game of let’s pretend? I’d say it’s the principle but there’s more at stake than that; it all serves to perpetuate this climate of fear. When we should have been treated like adults and trusted to be sensible, we’ve been deliberately cowed and controlled by fear. Our every move requiring permission from a Tory government drunk on power. Rights just handed over in return for an IOU of indeterminate redeeming date. They’re trading in fear like it’s a commodity and I’m not sure it’s got an end. We won’t get any sense of normality back as long as half the population are living in abject terror and seeing people wearing useless, highly conspicuous face totems only serves as a reminder to the terrified that everyone in every shopping aisle is potentially Death’s fucking messenger. It needs to stop.
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Corona
Jan 14, 2021 16:43:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by Attentive Onlooker on Jan 14, 2021 16:43:50 GMT
I’m really struggling to understand your position here. You seem to be saying that masks are a load of shit, they don’t work and they cause problems you wouldn’t otherwise have had but, at the same time, everyone should wear one. I won’t wear one but I don’t make a song and dance about it. If someone wants to challenge me then fine, I’m happy to have a chat about it, but I won’t be harassed and harangued in public. Anybody thinks that all this is an an excuse to give me shit in a shop is going to get told to fuck right off. I think his point is basically pick your battles; yeah they’re probably a load of shite, but it’s not like it’s a massive inconvenience. Next it's a visor and mask. Not a massive inconvenience though so why not? Then a bio hazard hood. Not really massively inconvenient though and it's only for a while isn't it? And why bother opening the pubs again? You'll only catch stuff in there. Drink at home. Only slightly different and just an inconvenience. Where and when do you want this to end? Keep accepting every minor inconvenience and it doesn't end.
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Corona
Jan 14, 2021 16:46:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by Attentive Onlooker on Jan 14, 2021 16:46:17 GMT
I’m really struggling to understand your position here. You seem to be saying that masks are a load of shit, they don’t work and they cause problems you wouldn’t otherwise have had but, at the same time, everyone should wear one. I have to wear one even though I don't really think they make any difference. Everyone else has to wear one regardless of whether they think they make no difference or whether they think they're a magical Covid forcefield. So I don't get why those who march round Tesco without a mask, arguing about it with shop staff, think they're special.
The ones who argue with shop staff and refuse to wear them are as bad as the GRANNY KILLER gomping mental cases.
And we have enough experimental data from around the world to prove they really don't work. No matter what how strict the mask mandate in a country the end result is the same. I'm happy to take precautions against infecting others if that's what it takes. I'm not happy to waste my time on platitudes.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Jan 14, 2021 16:46:24 GMT
Both of your cheese has slid off your crackers.
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Corona
Jan 14, 2021 16:57:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by Attentive Onlooker on Jan 14, 2021 16:57:39 GMT
Both of your cheese has slid off your crackers. Keep wearing your mask and letting other people do your thinking for you xx
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Corona
Jan 14, 2021 17:17:53 GMT
Post by jdc on Jan 14, 2021 17:17:53 GMT
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Jan 14, 2021 17:30:49 GMT
Both of your cheese has slid off your crackers. Keep wearing your mask and letting other people do your thinking for you xx I just think it’s a bit weird that it’s the masks that get people angry, not the absolute shambles of a response in pretty much every way.
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Corona
Jan 14, 2021 17:32:22 GMT
Post by Hobhead on Jan 14, 2021 17:32:22 GMT
There was no excuse to make that mistake the first time. If they do it again it’s bordering on manslaughter.
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Corona
Jan 14, 2021 17:32:51 GMT
Post by Hobhead on Jan 14, 2021 17:32:51 GMT
Keep wearing your mask and letting other people do your thinking for you xx I just think it’s a bit weird that it’s the masks that get people angry, not the absolute shambles of a response in pretty much every way. For me anger comes a distant third behind genuine concern and bewilderment.
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Corona
Jan 14, 2021 17:45:58 GMT
via mobile
Post by Attentive Onlooker on Jan 14, 2021 17:45:58 GMT
Keep wearing your mask and letting other people do your thinking for you xx I just think it’s a bit weird that it’s the masks that get people angry, not the absolute shambles of a response in pretty much every way. I'm not angry. I'm just not prepared to waste my time on a "minor inconvenience" that will turn out to be the thin end of the wedge.
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Corona
Jan 14, 2021 18:25:03 GMT
Post by jdc on Jan 14, 2021 18:25:03 GMT
Looks like people are more likely to follow the mask rules than bother washing their hands or social distancing: There is one rule that quite a few people are breaking and that's self-isolating. Probably not a great surprise given the number of people who can't afford to take two weeks off on SSP:
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Corona
Jan 14, 2021 18:30:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by Attentive Onlooker on Jan 14, 2021 18:30:56 GMT
Looks like people are more likely to follow the mask rules than bother washing their hands or social distancing: There is one rule that quite a few people are breaking and that's self-isolating. Probably not a great surprise given the number of people who can't afford to take two weeks off on SSP: That level of compliance kind of proves how pointless masks really are.
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Corona
Jan 15, 2021 6:16:27 GMT
Post by Hobhead on Jan 15, 2021 6:16:27 GMT
This is where the hysteria takes us: Pimlico Plumbers to make workers get vaccinationsAs the article says it’s highly likely to fail any legal challenge but I don’t understand how people can’t be concerned about where this might lead if we don’t get a grip on people’s fear. But then, when it appears to be being deliberately cultivated by anyone that counts, where’s the motivation to get a grip on it? Welcome to the new normal I suppose, but it’s only a few minor inconveniences.
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