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Corona
Dec 31, 2020 1:26:55 GMT
Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Dec 31, 2020 1:26:55 GMT
An anonymous blog post referencing the usual circlejerk of bottom-feeders. Yes, they even found room for Mike Yeadon, who wears a hat, a hat, he wears a tinfoil hat. I wouldn't trust most governments to run me a hot bath, never mind run a global conspiracy. It seemed a fairly accurate breakdown of an official government document. The problem is dissenting views have pretty much been eradicated from mainstream discourse. Just unrelenting shameless propaganda. Watching the news is like watching an episode of black mirror, except with a bad actors and a shite script riddled with plot holes. I think it was ITN news... the 'headline' was a 15min feature about one guy who suddenly caught and died from covid one day after the last lockdown. Usual guff about the 'loving family man' who 'had everything to live for' etc etc to set the scene. Enter a film crew who just happened to be on hand to film his 'battle with the virus' and his final moments on the ventilator. Cue interviews with grieving tearful relatives... 'don't let his death be in vain', 'please just follow the rules' etc etc. Cut back to the studio and the anchor turns to the 'expert'... "sadly, i hate to say this but further lockdowns may be unavoidable" she preaches in the the most patronising and insincere way possible. No balance. No perspective. Just pure manipulation and gaslighting. Too many people conflate corruption with ineptitude. All this stuff about bumbling stupid politicians stumbling from crisis to crisis like drunk dad from Rita Sue and Bob too... i don't buy it. I'll put my tin foil hat on
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Post by tetchyarse on Dec 31, 2020 10:15:42 GMT
Dissenting opinions haven't been "eradicated". What you are seeing is mainstream scientists largely agreeing with each others scientific study. Now either they're all in on it, there's some amazing McCarthyist plot to shut them up, or they're right. Dissenting opinions are still there, the likes of Yeadon and Gupta, but every time they make a pronouncement reality makes them look stupid. Even Dr Gupta has gone quiet.
Don't confuse corruption and cronyism- which the Tories are the world leaders in- with a wider massive New World Order conspiracy. The Tories, like all vermin, are taking advantage of their surroundings, but not creating their surroundings.
For any grand conspiracy I always look for motive, method and opportunity. And for all this scamdemic bollocks there's no evidence of any of it. Which is odd as, to run the conspiracy, tens if not hundreds of thousands of people would have to be in on it and there'd always be one who'd let slip in the pub. The truth is always much more boring. Leaders are just muddling through just like everyone else is.
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Corona
Dec 31, 2020 11:00:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by Attentive Onlooker on Dec 31, 2020 11:00:32 GMT
I don't agree that Mike Yeadon looks stupid. Every time I hear him he sounds a lot more compelling than the stuff the government and SAGE put out.
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Corona
Dec 31, 2020 11:10:05 GMT
Post by bantam147 on Dec 31, 2020 11:10:05 GMT
Thread: We’re setting the tiers and locking people down with data this fucking shit. PCR tests aren't as reliable as they should be, but the problem is the false negative rate not the false positive rate. It's why easing lock downs based on testing negative is such a stupid idea, as Jersey have so brilliantly shown in recent weeks. Where I live it's 14 days and we jail people who breach it. As a result, I'm writing this in the pub with a pint and Newcastle v Liverpool on the telly. Morning of 27th Dec I woke with a tight chest and bit of a cough. I then started to smell smoke for no obvious reason - i.e. indoors, and no one in our house smokes, nor do we have a natural fire. I went for a PCR test which came back negative 24 hours later. I still have a tight chest (feels like someone is sitting on it), and a cough. Can’t really smell smoke any more though. I’ve toyed with the idea of going for another test; I read online that the PCR tests are more reliable than the flow tests, but even so the level of false negatives could be anywhere from 3 to 29%. That’s a fairly significant margin.
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Post by Attentive Onlooker on Dec 31, 2020 11:19:35 GMT
Don't get tested.
The only way this madness ends is if everyone stops going for tests.
If you're worried you have it isolate as you would normally and stay away from vulnerable people.
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Post by Hoochy on Dec 31, 2020 12:10:20 GMT
PCR tests aren't as reliable as they should be, but the problem is the false negative rate not the false positive rate. It's why easing lock downs based on testing negative is such a stupid idea, as Jersey have so brilliantly shown in recent weeks. Where I live it's 14 days and we jail people who breach it. As a result, I'm writing this in the pub with a pint and Newcastle v Liverpool on the telly. Morning of 27th Dec I woke with a tight chest and bit of a cough. I then started to smell smoke for no obvious reason - i.e. indoors, and no one in our house smokes, nor do we have a natural fire. I went for a PCR test which came back negative 24 hours later. I still have a tight chest (feels like someone is sitting on it), and a cough. Can’t really smell smoke any more though. I’ve toyed with the idea of going for another test; I read online that the PCR tests are more reliable than the flow tests, but even so the level of false negatives could be anywhere from 3 to 29%. That’s a fairly significant margin. You've already had it you greedy bastard. He's wanting double sympathy.
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Corona
Dec 31, 2020 12:37:53 GMT
Post by bantam147 on Dec 31, 2020 12:37:53 GMT
Morning of 27th Dec I woke with a tight chest and bit of a cough. I then started to smell smoke for no obvious reason - i.e. indoors, and no one in our house smokes, nor do we have a natural fire. I went for a PCR test which came back negative 24 hours later. I still have a tight chest (feels like someone is sitting on it), and a cough. Can’t really smell smoke any more though. I’ve toyed with the idea of going for another test; I read online that the PCR tests are more reliable than the flow tests, but even so the level of false negatives could be anywhere from 3 to 29%. That’s a fairly significant margin. You've already had it you greedy bastard. He's wanting double sympathy. I’m special. I actually wonder whether its a longer term effect. It started when the temperature really dropped. Mate of mine was really ill back in Feb - hospitalised with Pneumonia. Wasn’t tested for Covid at the time, but he’s pretty sure that’ll what it was. His smell is fucked now, and when the temperature dropped he started with some of the same tight chest and coughing I’m having. Who knows. Probably just my own mind playing tricks.
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Post by tetchyarse on Dec 31, 2020 12:50:47 GMT
All the big bosses at my place had it in March, and a couple of them say they still can't taste things properly. Our Chief Minister says the same (and there's a good chance he gave it to our big bosses), and given his love of biscuits that's saying something.
There is evidence that Covid damages the lining of the lungs, so when the temperature drops you may well notice it in the same way asthmatics do.
A mate of mine in Glasgow got it in March and she's still not right. It's nasty but not to everyone, which is what makes it really odd.
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Post by Fat Ade on Dec 31, 2020 13:39:45 GMT
I was watching BoJo's latest update yesterday evening and I decided to do some calculations on what was being presented.
Penfold showed a chart stating that the infection rate is now 380 people in every 100,000, or 0.38%, on average in the UK.
I then looked at what Bratfud specifically was which for the seven day period ending 23/12/20 was 191 people in every 100,000 or 0.191%.
Based on Bradford's last published population numbers of 534,400 it means that a total of 1,021 rounded up (534,400/100,000 = 5.344 x 191 = 1,020.704) were infected.
The current death rate is 2.98% (72,548 deaths / 2,432,888 COVID cases) applying that to the 1,021 infections and statistically 31 rounded up of those are statistically going to die.
All of the above comes with following caveats:
1) The UK and Bradford's infection rate are highly likely to be higher than the 0.191% due to asymptomatic infections going undetected. 2) The death rate is highly likely to be lower than 2.98% due to caveat number one, you can't have one without the other. 3) All the deaths are people that have passed away within 28 days of having a positive COVID test.
The above is based on the Government and Bradford Council's published data and I have not manipulated it to tell a story that I want even though coincidentally it ends up doing just that.
My opinion for what it is worth, is that the current situation in the UK is like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. It is disproportionate to the "threat" and leads to me to think that there is an ulterior motive, I do not know what but their own figures do not fall in line with what they are saying. The way figures are presented are strange such as "died within 28 days of a positive COVID test"....alright then, last year 100,000 people died within 28 days of having a haircut, sounds ridiculous doesn't it?
The use of masks is a nonsense but I am willing to change my mind if someone could explain how we now have higher hospital admissions than in March where the minority wore masks vs. the majority that do today or how my 50p paper mask from John St Market is highly effective against the common cold, flu etc. but appears to be woefully inadequate against the one thing I am being mandated to wear it for?
I start applying logic to the measures and all I find is constant dead ends, what the actual fuck is going on? I sound like some conspiracy theorist, which I don't consider myself to be but the reality is that the glove does not fit the hand, they appear to be at complete odds with one another.
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Corona
Dec 31, 2020 15:00:30 GMT
via mobile
Post by tetchyarse on Dec 31, 2020 15:00:30 GMT
The evidence for masks is very sketchy, but they are not about protecting the wearer from Covid, they are about protecting others from the wearer spraying Covid droplets everywhere. I'm unconvinced by masks, they really do seem to be more about looking like you're doing something than actually doing something, and I agree with the Swedish health authority that wearing them just makes you fiddle with your face more.
Inhalation by airborne droplets is only one way of transmitting Covid, and if you have Covid then everything you touch will likely also get the virus particles put onto them by your fingers, regardless of the masks. So when you touch a can of beans covered in virus particles and then touch your face to adjust your mask, that's where you catch Covid. And if you get it chances are that people you live with will do too: on average 50% of people in a household will contract Covid if one person has it.
I think masks undermine more important messages about keeping distance and washing your bloody hands, and just give the scamdemic lot ammunition. After all, if the science for masks is weak then all the science must be, eh.
As for death statistics, if you die within 28 days of a Covid positive it's fair to attribute it to the disease. Viruses overload the body and weaken it, causing everything else to stop working. Example, my Mother in Law died of non-Covid pneumonia a few weeks ago. She seemed fine then pretty much dropped dead one morning, though when they did an x-ray it showed she must have had pneumonia for weeks. She died because her heart stopped, they got her going again once by CPR but couldn't do it the second time a few hours later. Pneumonia was why she had a heart attack, so pneumonia is what was stated on her death certificate as what killed her, not a heart attack. Makes sense, really.
They're not being daft with the stats, though, if you get a positive test and then get hit by a bus they won't record it as a Covid death.
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Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Dec 31, 2020 16:05:39 GMT
The evidence for masks is very sketchy, but they are not about protecting the wearer from Covid, they are about protecting others from the wearer spraying Covid droplets everywhere. I'm unconvinced by masks, they really do seem to be more about looking like you're doing something than actually doing something, and I agree with the Swedish health authority that wearing them just makes you fiddle with your face more. Inhalation by airborne droplets is only one way of transmitting Covid, and if you have Covid then everything you touch will likely also get the virus particles put onto them by your fingers, regardless of the masks. So when you touch a can of beans covered in virus particles and then touch your face to adjust your mask, that's where you catch Covid. And if you get it chances are that people you live with will do too: on average 50% of people in a household will contract Covid if one person has it. I think masks undermine more important messages about keeping distance and washing your bloody hands, and just give the scamdemic lot ammunition. After all, if the science for masks is weak then all the science must be, eh. As for death statistics, if you die within 28 days of a Covid positive it's fair to attribute it to the disease. Viruses overload the body and weaken it, causing everything else to stop working. Example, my Mother in Law died of non-Covid pneumonia a few weeks ago. She seemed fine then pretty much dropped dead one morning, though when they did an x-ray it showed she must have had pneumonia for weeks. She died because her heart stopped, they got her going again once by CPR but couldn't do it the second time a few hours later. Pneumonia was why she had a heart attack, so pneumonia is what was stated on her death certificate as what killed her, not a heart attack. Makes sense, really. They're not being daft with the stats, though, if you get a positive test and then get hit by a bus they won't record it as a Covid death. The 'scamdemic lot' aren't denying the existence of covid per se. The argument is that it covid being used as a smokescreen to terrify the public into accepting draconian measures and give up rights and civil liberties. Much like the 'war on terror', the same propaganda techniques are used. Fear, coercion, social disapproval. Dissenters 'hate our way of life' and warmongers are portrayed as heroic 'patriots' for wanting to bomb the fuck out of Afghan villages. Same rules, different game. Regarding your point about viruses other than covid being dangerous... doesn't this call into question the hysteria surrounding covid? By the same logic we should lockdown every time we have a bad flu season. Before covid, it was just an accepted fact of life that vulnerable people were more at risk from infections. There was no call for a micro managed dystopian police state. I lost my gran to severe dementia a few years back, although it was a chest infection that finally caused her to pass. It didn't occur to me blame people for not wearing a mask or for not social distancing. Or embark on some self important tirade about how selfish people are, and expect the whole world to stop until everyone was vaccinated. Now some cunt gets a sniffle and tests positive... the next thing you know they're writing their own obituary on fucking facebook. "if i don't make it, don't let my death be in vain. Please, please just follow the rules for all our sakes. You still have time to save yourselves"
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Post by Hobhead on Dec 31, 2020 16:16:22 GMT
How can a mask protect people who aren’t wearing the mask but not the wearer? How is it that the virus passes one way through the mask but not the other?
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Corona
Jan 1, 2021 10:07:21 GMT
Post by tetchyarse on Jan 1, 2021 10:07:21 GMT
How can a mask protect people who aren’t wearing the mask but not the wearer? How is it that the virus passes one way through the mask but not the other? You have Covid and when you sneeze or cough you spray Covid droplets everywhere. If you're wearing a mask then they're caught by the mask, if you're not then they spray everywhere. It's the same reason why the advice was originally to sneeze and cough into your sleeve or a paper tissue.
That's the theory anyway. FWIW it's obvious that Johnson just brought masks in because he was getting stick and wanted to look like he was doing something, because he's a fucking idiot.
If you don't have Covid- and most people don't- then masks are a complete waste of time. Well, worse than a complete waste of time, because the best advice is to don't touch your face, and a stupid scratchy mask just makes it more likely you will fiddle with it.
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Corona
Jan 1, 2021 10:13:55 GMT
Post by tetchyarse on Jan 1, 2021 10:13:55 GMT
The evidence for masks is very sketchy, but they are not about protecting the wearer from Covid, they are about protecting others from the wearer spraying Covid droplets everywhere. I'm unconvinced by masks, they really do seem to be more about looking like you're doing something than actually doing something, and I agree with the Swedish health authority that wearing them just makes you fiddle with your face more. Inhalation by airborne droplets is only one way of transmitting Covid, and if you have Covid then everything you touch will likely also get the virus particles put onto them by your fingers, regardless of the masks. So when you touch a can of beans covered in virus particles and then touch your face to adjust your mask, that's where you catch Covid. And if you get it chances are that people you live with will do too: on average 50% of people in a household will contract Covid if one person has it. I think masks undermine more important messages about keeping distance and washing your bloody hands, and just give the scamdemic lot ammunition. After all, if the science for masks is weak then all the science must be, eh. As for death statistics, if you die within 28 days of a Covid positive it's fair to attribute it to the disease. Viruses overload the body and weaken it, causing everything else to stop working. Example, my Mother in Law died of non-Covid pneumonia a few weeks ago. She seemed fine then pretty much dropped dead one morning, though when they did an x-ray it showed she must have had pneumonia for weeks. She died because her heart stopped, they got her going again once by CPR but couldn't do it the second time a few hours later. Pneumonia was why she had a heart attack, so pneumonia is what was stated on her death certificate as what killed her, not a heart attack. Makes sense, really. They're not being daft with the stats, though, if you get a positive test and then get hit by a bus they won't record it as a Covid death. Regarding your point about viruses other than covid being dangerous... doesn't this call into question the hysteria surrounding covid? By the same logic we should lockdown every time we have a bad flu season. It depends what you mean by a "bad flu season". The "bad flu season" just after WWI killed 50 million people, and resulted in widespread quarantines and lockdowns. So did the flu pandemics in the far east in the 50s and again in the 60s, both of which killed 4m people each.
Flu, when it takes hold, is a very nasty virus too. It's not a cold and a sniffle.
As for a "dystopian police state", there are easier ways of scaring people than inventing a pandemic that fucks the entire world's economy. I'd hardly say the rules in western countries are particularly dystopian, and the more strict countries (like the UAE, who make you wear an electronic tag) don't need any excuse to bring rules like that in. The rules where I live are stricter than most- we jail people for breaking quarantine, which here is now 21 days reduced to 14 if you take a Covid test and pay £50 for the privilege- but the prison sentence is a maximum of 3 months.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Jan 1, 2021 10:16:45 GMT
Oh there’s another page of this thread.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Jan 1, 2021 10:22:13 GMT
At this point can we not just call it an national lockdown? Attachments:
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Corona
Jan 1, 2021 16:41:16 GMT
Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Jan 1, 2021 16:41:16 GMT
Regarding your point about viruses other than covid being dangerous... doesn't this call into question the hysteria surrounding covid? By the same logic we should lockdown every time we have a bad flu season. It depends what you mean by a "bad flu season". The "bad flu season" just after WWI killed 50 million people, and resulted in widespread quarantines and lockdowns. So did the flu pandemics in the far east in the 50s and again in the 60s, both of which killed 4m people each.
Flu, when it takes hold, is a very nasty virus too. It's not a cold and a sniffle.
As for a "dystopian police state", there are easier ways of scaring people than inventing a pandemic that fucks the entire world's economy. I'd hardly say the rules in western countries are particularly dystopian, and the more strict countries (like the UAE, who make you wear an electronic tag) don't need any excuse to bring rules like that in. The rules where I live are stricter than most- we jail people for breaking quarantine, which here is now 21 days reduced to 14 if you take a Covid test and pay £50 for the privilege- but the prison sentence is a maximum of 3 months.
The 'spanish flu' pandemic was fuelled by appalling living and working conditions, little or no access to healthcare for the working class, overcrowding, poor sanitation, malnourishment amongst other things. I haven't researched those far east pandemics you mention, but i'm sure similar factors were at play. Flu can of course be serious. Last Christmas i caught a particularily nasty strain, it floored me for days. If i had a serious underlying health conditition, i've no doubt i would have been hospitalised. But the point is, before everyone lost their minds, risk from disease was just a fact of life. Think of all the epidemics over the years... meningitis, hospital super bugs, sars, BSE, aids and so on an so forth. Now covid, a disease apparently so serious that most people don't even know they've got it. Yet we're supposed to believe multi £trillion global lockdowns are proportional to the risk? Seriously? For some same money you could have quarantined every vulnerable 'at risk' person, put them up up in 5* star hotel and attended to their every whim while everyone else was left to get on with life un till the virus died out. But, instead, the lives and futures of millions of healthy people are seen as a price worth paying by out of touch politicians, civil servants, protected public sector workers and media luvvies with no skin in the game. Not to mention the insufferable army of dewy eyed bleeding hearts fact-phobic do gooders. Y'know, because peoples' lives matter etc etc. The objective isn't 'scaring people' per se. Overt heavy handedness is more likely to meet resistance. Its more about subtle conditioning and gaslighting through propaganda, peer pressure, fear, emotional triggers. Use furlough schemes to keep enough people comfortably numb to fend off a revolt. Double down on the hero and villain narrative. Desperate small business owner trying to earn a living = selfish heartless granny killer Layabout bedwetter sat at home on full pay = selfless hero Its also perplexing that many 'liberals' are so vehemently in favour of petty authoritarianism. Maybe the were never really liberals at all. Just disingenuous charlatans economically invested in the status quo.
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Corona
Jan 1, 2021 19:42:20 GMT
via mobile
Post by rahicscissorbudget on Jan 1, 2021 19:42:20 GMT
It depends what you mean by a "bad flu season". The "bad flu season" just after WWI killed 50 million people, and resulted in widespread quarantines and lockdowns. So did the flu pandemics in the far east in the 50s and again in the 60s, both of which killed 4m people each.
Flu, when it takes hold, is a very nasty virus too. It's not a cold and a sniffle.
As for a "dystopian police state", there are easier ways of scaring people than inventing a pandemic that fucks the entire world's economy. I'd hardly say the rules in western countries are particularly dystopian, and the more strict countries (like the UAE, who make you wear an electronic tag) don't need any excuse to bring rules like that in. The rules where I live are stricter than most- we jail people for breaking quarantine, which here is now 21 days reduced to 14 if you take a Covid test and pay £50 for the privilege- but the prison sentence is a maximum of 3 months.
The 'spanish flu' pandemic was fuelled by appalling living and working conditions, little or no access to healthcare for the working class, overcrowding, poor sanitation, malnourishment amongst other things. I haven't researched those far east pandemics you mention, but i'm sure similar factors were at play. Flu can of course be serious. Last Christmas i caught a particularily nasty strain, it floored me for days. If i had a serious underlying health conditition, i've no doubt i would have been hospitalised. But the point is, before everyone lost their minds, risk from disease was just a fact of life. Think of all the epidemics over the years... meningitis, hospital super bugs, sars, BSE, aids and so on an so forth. Now covid, a disease apparently so serious that most people don't even know they've got it. Yet we're supposed to believe multi £trillion global lockdowns are proportional to the risk? Seriously? For some same money you could have quarantined every vulnerable 'at risk' person, put them up up in 5* star hotel and attended to their every whim while everyone else was left to get on with life un till the virus died out. But, instead, the lives and futures of millions of healthy people are seen as a price worth paying by out of touch politicians, civil servants, protected public sector workers and media luvvies with no skin in the game. Not to mention the insufferable army of dewy eyed bleeding hearts fact-phobic do gooders. Y'know, because peoples' lives matter etc etc. The objective isn't 'scaring people' per se. Overt heavy handedness is more likely to meet resistance. Its more about subtle conditioning and gaslighting through propaganda, peer pressure, fear, emotional triggers. Use furlough schemes to keep enough people comfortably numb to fend off a revolt. Double down on the hero and villain narrative. Desperate small business owner trying to earn a living = selfish heartless granny killer Layabout bedwetter sat at home on full pay = selfless hero Its also perplexing that many 'liberals' are so vehemently in favour of petty authoritarianism. Maybe the were never really liberals at all. Just disingenuous charlatans economically invested in the status quo. Can’t be a layabout sat at home on full pay. You’re either on furlough (not full pay) or working from home (not layabout).
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Corona
Jan 1, 2021 23:59:01 GMT
Post by Hobhead on Jan 1, 2021 23:59:01 GMT
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Corona
Jan 2, 2021 13:14:45 GMT
via mobile
Post by tetchyarse on Jan 2, 2021 13:14:45 GMT
There are about 350,000 care home residents in the UK. So far so good, but they are already shielded and it didn't stop Covid running through care homes like a dose of salts.
But there's about 1m people claiming DLA/PIP, who would need to isolate too.
And then there's 650,000 front line medical NHS-employed staff, about 200,000 who work in GPs and dentists, and about 1.3m people directly providing care in residential homes and in people's own homes. They would need to isolate too. And their partners. And their children.
That's why the theory didn't really work in Sweden. The numbers of people who would need to completely isolate are simply too high.
Masks are still bollocks though.
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