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Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Sept 11, 2019 20:12:05 GMT
Leave won the referendum. The problem is Leave can't decide what sort of Leave they want. They bicker and moan amongst themselves. If every Leave MP had voted to Leave under any of the three votes held by May, we'd have already left. But they didn't, they voted against Leave, so we didn't Leave. The fact you Leavers can't make your fucking mind up isn't anything to do with us Remainers. If you Leavers can't even get Leave MPs to vote Leave... With respect all this hard/ soft brexit bollocks was really just remoaners just trying to muddy the waters. The original ballot was a simple choice between remain and leave. The supporting government information made it clear that this means leaving the EU and all of its it's institutions, with a 2 year implementation period. And that the result would be implemented. The official advice was to vote remain. The decision was delegated to the people. I think the assumption was any future arrangments with the EU would be agreed in due course, but specific trade agreements weren't a condition of leaving. Nor that MPs would be able to effectevely veto the referendum result because they didn't think 'no deal' was in 'the national interest' (ie self interest) . The logical solution would be to have a public vote between any withdrawl agreement and 'no deal', with 'no deal' on the table as negotiating leverage with the EU.. Labour wants a choice between remain or a 'credible leave option'' (ie a shit deal negotiated by remoaners) on the ballot. Then campaign to remain. Yeah, me neither. The Liberal Democrats are quickly becoming the definition of doublethink. Like some fucked up Orwellian nightmare. Using unelected MPs to void the referendum, to 'protect' democracy.
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Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Sept 11, 2019 20:14:56 GMT
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Post by tetchyarse on Sept 11, 2019 20:58:59 GMT
Leave won the referendum. The problem is Leave can't decide what sort of Leave they want. They bicker and moan amongst themselves. If every Leave MP had voted to Leave under any of the three votes held by May, we'd have already left. But they didn't, they voted against Leave, so we didn't Leave. The fact you Leavers can't make your fucking mind up isn't anything to do with us Remainers. If you Leavers can't even get Leave MPs to vote Leave... With respect all this hard/ soft brexit bollocks was really just remoaners just trying to muddy the waters. The original ballot was a simple choice between remain and leave. The supporting government information made it clear that this means leaving the EU and all of its it's institutions, with a 2 year implementation period. And that the result would be implemented. The official advice was to vote remain. The decision was delegated to the people. I think the assumption was any future arrangments with the EU would be agreed in due course, but specific trade agreements weren't a condition of leaving. Nor that MPs would be able to effectevely veto the referendum result because they didn't think 'no deal' was in 'the national interest' (ie self interest) . The logical solution would be to have a public vote between any withdrawl agreement and 'no deal', with 'no deal' on the table as negotiating leverage with the EU.. Labour wants a choice between remain or a 'credible leave option'' (ie a shit deal negotiated by remoaners) on the ballot. Then campaign to remain. Yeah, me neither. The Liberal Democrats are quickly becoming the definition of doublethink. Like some fucked up Orwellian nightmare. Using unelected MPs to void the referendum, to 'protect' democracy. If Leave MPs had voted for May's deal we'd have left the EU six months ago. They had the numbers. They didn't. It isn't "remoaners" holding things up. It continues to amaze me how Brexitists continue to tie themselves in knots blaming everyone and anyone else for their mess. It's like listening to my preteen daughter.
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Post by Attentive Onlooker on Sept 11, 2019 21:10:19 GMT
With respect all this hard/ soft brexit bollocks was really just remoaners just trying to muddy the waters. The original ballot was a simple choice between remain and leave. The supporting government information made it clear that this means leaving the EU and all of its it's institutions, with a 2 year implementation period. And that the result would be implemented. The official advice was to vote remain. The decision was delegated to the people. I think the assumption was any future arrangments with the EU would be agreed in due course, but specific trade agreements weren't a condition of leaving. Nor that MPs would be able to effectevely veto the referendum result because they didn't think 'no deal' was in 'the national interest' (ie self interest) . The logical solution would be to have a public vote between any withdrawl agreement and 'no deal', with 'no deal' on the table as negotiating leverage with the EU.. Labour wants a choice between remain or a 'credible leave option'' (ie a shit deal negotiated by remoaners) on the ballot. Then campaign to remain. Yeah, me neither. The Liberal Democrats are quickly becoming the definition of doublethink. Like some fucked up Orwellian nightmare. Using unelected MPs to void the referendum, to 'protect' democracy. If Leave MPs had voted for May's deal we'd have left the EU six months ago. They had the numbers. They didn't. It isn't "remoaners" holding things up. It continues to amaze me how Brexitists continue to tie themselves in knots blaming everyone and anyone else for their mess. It's like listening to my preteen daughter. Remain MPs vastly outnumber Leave ones. They don't have the numbers. That's why we're where we are. If it was a Leave majority house we'd be out by now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 6:10:40 GMT
If Leave MPs had voted for May's deal we'd have left the EU six months ago. They had the numbers. They didn't. It isn't "remoaners" holding things up. It continues to amaze me how Brexitists continue to tie themselves in knots blaming everyone and anyone else for their mess. It's like listening to my preteen daughter. Remain MPs vastly outnumber Leave ones. They don't have the numbers. That's why we're where we are. If it was a Leave majority house we'd be out by now. Which goes back to the 2017 election. If Theresa May hadn't called that election thinking she was gonna win by a landslide we would definitely be out by now.
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Post by Nice boy on Sept 12, 2019 7:24:14 GMT
Leave won the referendum. The problem is Leave can't decide what sort of Leave they want. They bicker and moan amongst themselves. If every Leave MP had voted to Leave under any of the three votes held by May, we'd have already left. But they didn't, they voted against Leave, so we didn't Leave. The fact you Leavers can't make your fucking mind up isn't anything to do with us Remainers. If you Leavers can't even get Leave MPs to vote Leave... With respect all this hard/ soft brexit bollocks was really just remoaners just trying to muddy the waters. The original ballot was a simple choice between remain and leave. The supporting government information made it clear that this means leaving the EU and all of its it's institutions, with a 2 year implementation period. And that the result would be implemented. The official advice was to vote remain. The decision was delegated to the people. I think the assumption was any future arrangments with the EU would be agreed in due course, but specific trade agreements weren't a condition of leaving. Nor that MPs would be able to effectevely veto the referendum result because they didn't think 'no deal' was in 'the national interest' (ie self interest) . The logical solution would be to have a public vote between any withdrawl agreement and 'no deal', with 'no deal' on the table as negotiating leverage with the EU.. Labour wants a choice between remain or a 'credible leave option'' (ie a shit deal negotiated by remoaners) on the ballot. Then campaign to remain. Yeah, me neither. The Liberal Democrats are quickly becoming the definition of doublethink. Like some fucked up Orwellian nightmare. Using unelected MPs to void the referendum, to 'protect' democracy. Many of those on the leave side were using Switzerland and Norway to push their Brexit agenda including but not limited to Leave.EU (One of, if not the most popular pro Brexit platforms out there) and Nigel Farage. Most of the people I discussed Brexit with prior to the referendum based their vote with the assumption that we'll still enjoy the benefits of the EU because we're a big player and the EU will be desperate to strike a deal. No deal Brexit was hardly discussed at all. Brexiteers know that Brexit is a fuckup, and all they've got left now is blaming it all on 'remoaners', a world away from the unicorns we were getting prior to the vote.
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Post by Hobhead on Sept 12, 2019 7:56:12 GMT
With respect all this hard/ soft brexit bollocks was really just remoaners just trying to muddy the waters. The original ballot was a simple choice between remain and leave. The supporting government information made it clear that this means leaving the EU and all of its it's institutions, with a 2 year implementation period. And that the result would be implemented. The official advice was to vote remain. The decision was delegated to the people. I think the assumption was any future arrangments with the EU would be agreed in due course, but specific trade agreements weren't a condition of leaving. Nor that MPs would be able to effectevely veto the referendum result because they didn't think 'no deal' was in 'the national interest' (ie self interest) . The logical solution would be to have a public vote between any withdrawl agreement and 'no deal', with 'no deal' on the table as negotiating leverage with the EU.. Labour wants a choice between remain or a 'credible leave option'' (ie a shit deal negotiated by remoaners) on the ballot. Then campaign to remain. Yeah, me neither. The Liberal Democrats are quickly becoming the definition of doublethink. Like some fucked up Orwellian nightmare. Using unelected MPs to void the referendum, to 'protect' democracy. If Leave MPs had voted for May's deal we'd have left the EU six months ago. They had the numbers. They didn't. It isn't "remoaners" holding things up. It continues to amaze me how Brexitists continue to tie themselves in knots blaming everyone and anyone else for their mess. It's like listening to my preteen daughter. If Remainers has had the good sense to play the long game they’d have voted for May’s deal. It was guaranteed to fail. Then, three or so years down the line they’d have got their second referendum and won.
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Post by Bacon on Sept 12, 2019 9:43:22 GMT
It's dead in the water, we're staying in. #MCHAMMER
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Post by Attentive Onlooker on Sept 12, 2019 11:14:46 GMT
With respect all this hard/ soft brexit bollocks was really just remoaners just trying to muddy the waters. The original ballot was a simple choice between remain and leave. The supporting government information made it clear that this means leaving the EU and all of its it's institutions, with a 2 year implementation period. And that the result would be implemented. The official advice was to vote remain. The decision was delegated to the people. I think the assumption was any future arrangments with the EU would be agreed in due course, but specific trade agreements weren't a condition of leaving. Nor that MPs would be able to effectevely veto the referendum result because they didn't think 'no deal' was in 'the national interest' (ie self interest) . The logical solution would be to have a public vote between any withdrawl agreement and 'no deal', with 'no deal' on the table as negotiating leverage with the EU.. Labour wants a choice between remain or a 'credible leave option'' (ie a shit deal negotiated by remoaners) on the ballot. Then campaign to remain. Yeah, me neither. The Liberal Democrats are quickly becoming the definition of doublethink. Like some fucked up Orwellian nightmare. Using unelected MPs to void the referendum, to 'protect' democracy. Many of those on the leave side were using Switzerland and Norway to push their Brexit agenda including but not limited to Leave.EU (One of, if not the most popular pro Brexit platforms out there) and Nigel Farage. Most of the people I discussed Brexit with prior to the referendum based their vote with the assumption that we'll still enjoy the benefits of the EU because we're a big player and the EU will be desperate to strike a deal. No deal Brexit was hardly discussed at all. Brexiteers know that Brexit is a fuckup, and all they've got left now is blaming it all on 'remoaners', a world away from the unicorns we were getting prior to the vote. And it could've been achieved. If we'd gone in with the intent of joining EFTA from the start we may have had a good deal by now. Instead we went in with fuck knows what half arsed strategy led by people who didn't really believe in Brexit in the first place. It was doomed from the moment we went with Theresa May. We now just need to leave, no deal or not, to not do so would be to shit all over the democracy of this country.
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Post by Neshead on Sept 12, 2019 11:32:23 GMT
With respect all this hard/ soft brexit bollocks was really just remoaners just trying to muddy the waters. The original ballot was a simple choice between remain and leave. The supporting government information made it clear that this means leaving the EU and all of its it's institutions, with a 2 year implementation period. And that the result would be implemented. The official advice was to vote remain. The decision was delegated to the people. I think the assumption was any future arrangments with the EU would be agreed in due course, but specific trade agreements weren't a condition of leaving. Nor that MPs would be able to effectevely veto the referendum result because they didn't think 'no deal' was in 'the national interest' (ie self interest) . The logical solution would be to have a public vote between any withdrawl agreement and 'no deal', with 'no deal' on the table as negotiating leverage with the EU.. Labour wants a choice between remain or a 'credible leave option'' (ie a shit deal negotiated by remoaners) on the ballot. Then campaign to remain. Yeah, me neither. The Liberal Democrats are quickly becoming the definition of doublethink. Like some fucked up Orwellian nightmare. Using unelected MPs to void the referendum, to 'protect' democracy. Many of those on the leave side were using Switzerland and Norway to push their Brexit agenda including but not limited to Leave.EU (One of, if not the most popular pro Brexit platforms out there) and Nigel Farage. Most of the people I discussed Brexit with prior to the referendum based their vote with the assumption that we'll still enjoy the benefits of the EU because we're a big player and the EU will be desperate to strike a deal. No deal Brexit was hardly discussed at all. Brexiteers know that Brexit is a fuckup, and all they've got left now is blaming it all on 'remoaners', a world away from the unicorns we were getting prior to the vote. Brexit being a fuck up and wanting to leave are two entirely different things. Just because the useless cunts in charge can’t implement us leaving the EU in a quick and concise way doesn’t mean it cannot be done. I voted leave, i’m still waiting for that wish to be carried out. Shame but it shows just hiw worthless your vote really is.
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Post by northernmonkey on Sept 12, 2019 15:41:30 GMT
Anyone else really not give a fuck whether we come out or stay in?
Either way the government will find a way to keep taking plenty of your money so you might aswell just keep plodding on and enjoying yourself as much as you possibly can until you go meet the big man in the sky.
Politics is bollocks and in all honesty I've never felt any effects from a change of government in 25 years of working so fuck em, crack on with your arguing MP's, I'm off for a pint.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2019 16:29:52 GMT
My main worry (and reason for voting remain) is mainly to do with our government. It's the fact that the EU will have their hands completely off our steering wheel. Yes we pay them billions per year to them but we do get a large proportion of that back. I simply don't trust the Tories to run this country. They would rip up the human rights act, the working rights act and every other good law that The EU has implemented. They would waste the saved money on Defence, HS2, HS3, and other stupid stuff instead of where it's needed like NHS, social care, affordable housing, and policing, and I fear The UK would become a dictatorship.....Which is already happening under that cunt Johnson!
The EU scrapped mobile roaming charges in 2017 and the Tories had the cheek to claim that it was them who brought it into force. But anything bad happening in the UK is all the EU's fault.
Saying that i wouldn't trust a Corbyn led government either!
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claw
Hot Water Tank Bantam
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Post by claw on Sept 12, 2019 16:36:10 GMT
I’d welcome HS2 and HS3 with open arms. The North needs it.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Sept 12, 2019 20:01:36 GMT
My main worry (and reason for voting remain) is mainly to do with our government. It's the fact that the EU will have their hands completely off our steering wheel. Yes we pay them billions per year to them but we do get a large proportion of that back. I simply don't trust the Tories to run this country. They would rip up the human rights act, the working rights act and every other good law that The EU has implemented. They would waste the saved money on Defence, HS2, HS3, and other stupid stuff instead of where it's needed like NHS, social care, affordable housing, and policing, and I fear The UK would become a dictatorship.....Which is already happening under that cunt Johnson! The EU scrapped mobile roaming charges in 2017 and the Tories had the cheek to claim that it was them who brought it into force. But anything bad happening in the UK is all the EU's fault. Saying that i wouldn't trust a Corbyn led government either! Oversight. Literally why I voted to stay in. Some people love being bummed by Southerners though.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Sept 12, 2019 20:02:07 GMT
I’d welcome HS2 and HS3 with open arms. The North needs it. HS3 absolutely. HS2 is a waste of time and space.
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Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Sept 16, 2019 17:26:09 GMT
My main worry (and reason for voting remain) is mainly to do with our government. It's the fact that the EU will have their hands completely off our steering wheel. Yes we pay them billions per year to them but we do get a large proportion of that back. I simply don't trust the Tories to run this country. They would rip up the human rights act, the working rights act and every other good law that The EU has implemented. They would waste the saved money on Defence, HS2, HS3, and other stupid stuff instead of where it's needed like NHS, social care, affordable housing, and policing, and I fear The UK would become a dictatorship.....Which is already happening under that cunt Johnson! The EU scrapped mobile roaming charges in 2017 and the Tories had the cheek to claim that it was them who brought it into force. But anything bad happening in the UK is all the EU's fault. Saying that i wouldn't trust a Corbyn led government either! You make it sound like the UK was a banana republic before joining the EU. The truth is workers rights/ pay and conditions has probably regressed since we joined.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 18:39:19 GMT
My main worry (and reason for voting remain) is mainly to do with our government. It's the fact that the EU will have their hands completely off our steering wheel. Yes we pay them billions per year to them but we do get a large proportion of that back. I simply don't trust the Tories to run this country. They would rip up the human rights act, the working rights act and every other good law that The EU has implemented. They would waste the saved money on Defence, HS2, HS3, and other stupid stuff instead of where it's needed like NHS, social care, affordable housing, and policing, and I fear The UK would become a dictatorship.....Which is already happening under that cunt Johnson! The EU scrapped mobile roaming charges in 2017 and the Tories had the cheek to claim that it was them who brought it into force. But anything bad happening in the UK is all the EU's fault. Saying that i wouldn't trust a Corbyn led government either! The truth is workers rights/ pay and conditions has probably regressed since we joined. You're obviously a leaver so it's not worth debating
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Post by Attentive Onlooker on Sept 17, 2019 11:10:20 GMT
The truth is workers rights/ pay and conditions has probably regressed since we joined. You're obviously a leaver so it's not worth debating I only ever debate with people who 100% agree with me.
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Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Sept 19, 2019 17:17:06 GMT
The truth is workers rights/ pay and conditions has probably regressed since we joined. You're obviously a leaver so it's not worth debating Who needs debate when you can make your point via the medium of interprative dance? You're obviously a remainer therefore exempt from democracy.
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Post by Hobhead on Sept 19, 2019 17:33:52 GMT
That one in the blue t-shirt is taking the piss I reckon. The rest are real but he’s an interloper.
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