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Post by Attentive Onlooker on Sept 2, 2019 20:07:51 GMT
What benefits? Have you seen the economic state of the countries in the EU? Not exactly a glowing endorsement of its membership is it? Freedom of movement? Access to a common market of bare people? The strength of being in a bloc of bare people when making trade deals? Not having to go to war with yr neighbours for a bit? Bare people? Why would not being in the EU lead to war? And freedom of movement has been terrible for the working classes.
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Post by Neshead on Sept 2, 2019 20:08:13 GMT
What benefits? Have you seen the economic state of the countries in the EU? Not exactly a glowing endorsement of its membership is it? Freedom of movement? Access to a common market of bare people? The strength of being in a bloc of bare people when making trade deals? Not having to go to war with yr neighbours for a bit? Then why are most of Europes established countries up shit creek without a paddle?
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Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Sept 3, 2019 6:29:44 GMT
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Sept 3, 2019 6:59:52 GMT
Freedom of movement? Access to a common market of bare people? The strength of being in a bloc of bare people when making trade deals? Not having to go to war with yr neighbours for a bit? Bare people? Why would not being in the EU lead to war? And freedom of movement has been terrible for the working classes. Yeah bare, it’s quite a common word, I couldn’t be arsed looking up how many. FoM being terrible for anyone is debatable. It’s pretty widely agreed to have contributed to a really long period of peace in Europe.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Sept 3, 2019 7:02:16 GMT
Freedom of movement? Access to a common market of bare people? The strength of being in a bloc of bare people when making trade deals? Not having to go to war with yr neighbours for a bit? Then why are most of Europes established countries up shit creek without a paddle? Macroeconomics?
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Post by Neshead on Sept 3, 2019 7:05:36 GMT
Then why are most of Europes established countries up shit creek without a paddle? Macroeconomics? But no mention of the EU? Just pick out the good bits.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Sept 3, 2019 8:21:56 GMT
But no mention of the EU? Just pick out the good bits. What?
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Post by Attentive Onlooker on Sept 3, 2019 8:48:33 GMT
Bare people? Why would not being in the EU lead to war? And freedom of movement has been terrible for the working classes. Yeah bare, it’s quite a common word, I couldn’t be arsed looking up how many. FoM being terrible for anyone is debatable. It’s pretty widely agreed to have contributed to a really long period of peace in Europe. Freedom of movement is shit for lower paid, unskilled people unless you're lower paid and unskilled from a lower paid country coming into a higher paid country. FOM has suppressed wages for the worse off in society. People were then told that they were "too lazy" to take on these jobs and we "needed" to import cheap labour to do them. Insult on top of insult. The best thing for the working class in this country would be to halt FOM asap. If you restrict the labour pool then employers have no choice but to start bidding for employees. The power shifts to the worker. And your point about the EU preventing war is bollocks hardly dignifying a reply. Democracy has prevented war. If you knew your history you'd know that only once have two democracies declared war on each other. Britain and Finland. No shots between the two were ever fired because it wasn't a serious declaration - it was done to appease Stalin.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Sept 3, 2019 9:27:09 GMT
Yeah bare, it’s quite a common word, I couldn’t be arsed looking up how many. FoM being terrible for anyone is debatable. It’s pretty widely agreed to have contributed to a really long period of peace in Europe. Freedom of movement is shit for lower paid, unskilled people unless you're lower paid and unskilled from a lower paid country coming into a higher paid country. FOM has suppressed wages for the worse off in society. People were then told that they were "too lazy" to take on these jobs and we "needed" to import cheap labour to do them. Insult on top of insult. The best thing for the working class in this country would be to halt FOM asap. If you restrict the labour pool then employers have no choice but to start bidding for employees. The power shifts to the worker. And your point about the EU preventing war is bollocks hardly dignifying a reply. Democracy has prevented war. If you knew your history you'd know that only once have two democracies declared war on each other. Britain and Finland. No shots between the two were ever fired because it wasn't a serious declaration - it was done to appease Stalin. Most studies show a very small correlation between unskilled migrants and wage decreases, in the region of 0.2% decrease for every 1% migrant share. I’d say the bigger issue is that British people are shit at languages, so don’t feel any potential benefit. I take yr point that not everybody sees it as a benefit, but tbh when someone asked me to list the benefits of membership, I was all *rolls eyes ffs* Didn’t Hitler get elected in an election?
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Post by Neshead on Sept 3, 2019 9:30:08 GMT
But no mention of the EU? Just pick out the good bits. What? Tell me what good the EU is for all the other countries who are on their arses? Tell me how they benefit from this supposed wonderful utopia of free movement and trade.Cos where i'm sitting it looks like the EU is one big busted flush. Show me how the citizens of Europe benefit from the countries membership of the EU?
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Sept 3, 2019 9:37:04 GMT
Tell me what good the EU is for all the other countries who are on their arses? Tell me how they benefit from this supposed wonderful utopia of free movement and trade.Cos where i'm sitting it looks like the EU is one big busted flush. Show me how the citizens of Europe benefit from the countries membership of the EU? I did before, I’m not gonna sit here listing every benefit of the EU, you don’t like it, that’s fine. My point isn’t that people should or shouldn’t change their mind, my point is that the referendum was sloppily worded and leave was ill defined, so people are always going to question what people were voting for. People might all have been voting for no deal. Fine if that’s what people want, if it had been worded like that and leave won we would have left by now, I’d have no arguments and you’d have got what you want by now. But we can’t be certain and the only way to resolve this is to check, and not in a general election cos that’s about other stuff than Brexit.
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Post by Attentive Onlooker on Sept 3, 2019 9:38:53 GMT
Freedom of movement is shit for lower paid, unskilled people unless you're lower paid and unskilled from a lower paid country coming into a higher paid country. FOM has suppressed wages for the worse off in society. People were then told that they were "too lazy" to take on these jobs and we "needed" to import cheap labour to do them. Insult on top of insult. The best thing for the working class in this country would be to halt FOM asap. If you restrict the labour pool then employers have no choice but to start bidding for employees. The power shifts to the worker. And your point about the EU preventing war is bollocks hardly dignifying a reply. Democracy has prevented war. If you knew your history you'd know that only once have two democracies declared war on each other. Britain and Finland. No shots between the two were ever fired because it wasn't a serious declaration - it was done to appease Stalin. Most studies show a very small correlation between unskilled migrants and wage decreases, in the region of 0.2% decrease for every 1% migrant share. I’d say the bigger issue is that British people are shit at languages, so don’t feel any potential benefit. I take yr point that not everybody sees it as a benefit, but tbh when someone asked me to list the benefits of membership, I was all *rolls eyes ffs* Didn’t Hitler get elected in an election? Yes he did but very quickly moved to ban elections and opposition parties. Germany very quickly became a dictatorship. And that "small" correlation is enough. Why would anyone vote for a 0.2% decrease? No matter how small that is anyone seeing the word "decrease" ain't voting for it.
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claw
Hot Water Tank Bantam
Posts: 713
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Post by claw on Sept 3, 2019 9:39:44 GMT
Lads, 5 years ago there was a load of Polish lads and lasses working at our place, there’s none now.
I’m still waiting for my pay rise.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Sept 3, 2019 9:41:49 GMT
Lads, 5 years ago there was a load of Polish lads and lasses working at our place, there’s none now. I’m still waiting for my pay rise. FUCK YOU LEAVE MEANS LEAVE
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Post by Neshead on Sept 3, 2019 9:48:31 GMT
Tell me what good the EU is for all the other countries who are on their arses? Tell me how they benefit from this supposed wonderful utopia of free movement and trade.Cos where i'm sitting it looks like the EU is one big busted flush. Show me how the citizens of Europe benefit from the countries membership of the EU? I did before, I’m not gonna sit here listing every benefit of the EU, you don’t like it, that’s fine. My point isn’t that people should or shouldn’t change their mind, my point is that the referendum was sloppily worded and leave was ill defined, so people are always going to question what people were voting for. People might all have been voting for no deal. Fine if that’s what people want, if it had been worded like that and leave won we would have left by now, I’d have no arguments and you’d have got what you want by now. But we can’t be certain and the only way to resolve this is to check, and not in a general election cos that’s about other stuff than Brexit. Any chance you can answer my question? Thanks in advance.
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Post by Attentive Onlooker on Sept 3, 2019 9:51:11 GMT
Lads, 5 years ago there was a load of Polish lads and lasses working at our place, there’s none now. I’m still waiting for my pay rise. You'll be waiting a long time.
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claw
Hot Water Tank Bantam
Posts: 713
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Post by claw on Sept 3, 2019 9:59:28 GMT
It's a story as old as fucking time, ain't it. The Irish, The Pakistanis, EU migrants, they all get/got the blame. Check out how the Windrush folk were treated when they went down the pits, nothing's changed. Divide and fucking conquer... I would've thought folk might have worked it out by now.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Sept 3, 2019 10:02:20 GMT
I did before, I’m not gonna sit here listing every benefit of the EU, you don’t like it, that’s fine. My point isn’t that people should or shouldn’t change their mind, my point is that the referendum was sloppily worded and leave was ill defined, so people are always going to question what people were voting for. People might all have been voting for no deal. Fine if that’s what people want, if it had been worded like that and leave won we would have left by now, I’d have no arguments and you’d have got what you want by now. But we can’t be certain and the only way to resolve this is to check, and not in a general election cos that’s about other stuff than Brexit. Any chance you can answer my question? Thanks in advance. Depends what you mean by on their arses. If it’s economically, the good is that they get to sell their bits and bats, if it goes completely to bollocks individuals have the right to seek work somewhere where it hasn’t, and countries have access to things like central bank support and the regional development fund, but the EU isn’t god and can’t control things like a protectionist super power and has been, IMO, too laissez faire in its treatment of investment banks. You can have a legit discussion about the direction taken by both the ECB and national central banks after the 2008 financial crisis and conditions imposed as part of bail out packages (see Greece) but I would put that down to the last 40(?) years of orthodox economic philosophy and policy and rolling back on the post Bretton Woods consensus rather than the existence of, or countries membership of, a supra-national bloc. Most of the major problems facing the world now will require a series of micro-targeted solutions at a sub-national level, and/or international solutions, both of which or continental body would be well placed to address, even if it is an imperfect institution.
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Post by Neshead on Sept 3, 2019 10:08:10 GMT
Any chance you can answer my question? Thanks in advance. Depends what you mean by on their arses. If it’s economically, the good is that they get to sell their bits and bats, if it goes completely to bollocks individuals have the right to seek work somewhere where it hasn’t, and countries have access to things like central bank support and the regional development fund, but the EU isn’t god and can’t control things like a protectionist super power and has been, IMO, too laissez faire in its treatment of investment banks. You can have a legit discussion about the direction taken by both the ECB and national central banks after the 2008 financial crisis and conditions imposed as part of bail out packages (see Greece) but I would put that down to the last 40(?) years of orthodox economic philosophy and policy and rolling back on the post Bretton Woods consensus rather than the existence of, or countries membership of, a supra-national bloc. Most of the major problems facing the world now will require a series of micro-targeted solutions at a sub-national level, and/or international solutions, both of which or continental body would be well placed to address, even if it is an imperfect institution. Which expert have you copy and pasted that from?
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Post by Attentive Onlooker on Sept 3, 2019 10:25:34 GMT
It's a story as old as fucking time, ain't it. The Irish, The Pakistanis, EU migrants, they all get/got the blame. Check out how the Windrush folk were treated when they went down the pits, nothing's changed. Divide and fucking conquer... I would've thought folk might have worked it out by now. Blame for what?
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