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Grayson
May 9, 2018 7:48:08 GMT
via mobile
Post by Dick on May 9, 2018 7:48:08 GMT
I've just landed in Malta and am using the airport wifi to read this shit. If there was an award for comedy in sport we'd be runaway winners. Go on then Rupp and Rahic, try to un-fuck this. I’m enjoying this debacle from Kefalonia, went to Malta in January and it’s very pleasant. Enjoy. Have actually been about 25 times over the years, got a lot of family out this way. But yeah, you've got to laugh about it. We support a team that's never going to win anything anyway, no point getting menstrual about things like this.
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Post by Hobhead on May 9, 2018 16:05:42 GMT
From the Yorkshire Post:
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Post by Neshead on May 9, 2018 16:30:47 GMT
It was clear from a week or two into his short tenure that he wasn't going to stay. It was quite clear he has been working with clubs over the past decade that have budgets at least three or four times as much as ours. He has no idea of our history over the last fifteen years or so, if he had he would realise we are a basket case club that got the luckiest of breaks when they took on Parkinson as manager. He alone, much to the anger of Ricc i presume, took this club from a bunch of absolute shitkickers in league two to a club in the playoffs in league one. He alone managed to get this club to break even and even pay back a 'loan' to the fat controller ( we were never really debt free eh). Unfortunately the infrastructure of Bradford City has never moved from those days of league two. An abortion of a pitch, a stadium in dire need of maintenance and refurbishment and an off the pitch set up that at times was quite frankly amateurish. This is what made me shake my head in amazement when Rupp and Rahic allegedly stumped up the 6 million Lawn and Rhodes were asking for. What on earth did they pay for? We don't own anything, our squad was pretty much worthless, our training facilities belong to a school. A pitch notorious for falling to bits ( now we know why) and a stadium to match. I'm not sure how much 'due dilligence' they claim to have done but i guess Lawn and Rhodes felt like all their Christmases had come at once when R & R walked through the door. Which leads me to Grayson and his comments. His words are a marker as to where this club stands in the football world. A bog standard league one club no better than another 20 or so other club in the division. Forget the 20,000 or so 'bantams family' it means little to the money coming into the club. What it does say is this club is miles away from championship level and will cost a figure somewhere comparative to what R & R paid for it just to bring in line with the championship shitkickers. You wanna play with the big boys? You'd better have deep pockets.
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Grayson
May 9, 2018 21:33:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by Fat Ade on May 9, 2018 21:33:49 GMT
It was clear from a week or two into his short tenure that he wasn't going to stay. It was quite clear he has been working with clubs over the past decade that have budgets at least three or four times as much as ours. He has no idea of our history over the last fifteen years or so, if he had he would realise we are a basket case club that got the luckiest of breaks when they took on Parkinson as manager. He alone, much to the anger of Ricc i presume, took this club from a bunch of absolute shitkickers in league two to a club in the playoffs in league one. He alone managed to get this club to break even and even pay back a 'loan' to the fat controller ( we were never really debt free eh). Unfortunately the infrastructure of Bradford City has never moved from those days of league two. An abortion of a pitch, a stadium in dire need of maintenance and refurbishment and an off the pitch set up that at times was quite frankly amateurish. This is what made me shake my head in amazement when Rupp and Rahic allegedly stumped up the 6 million Lawn and Rhodes were asking for. What on earth did they pay for? We don't own anything, our squad was pretty much worthless, our training facilities belong to a school. A pitch notorious for falling to bits ( now we know why) and a stadium to match. I'm not sure how much 'due dilligence' they claim to have done but i guess Lawn and Rhodes felt like all their Christmases had come at once when R & R walked through the door. Which leads me to Grayson and his comments. His words are a marker as to where this club stands in the football world. A bog standard league one club no better than another 20 or so other club in the division. Forget the 20,000 or so 'bantams family' it means little to the money coming into the club. What it does say is this club is miles away from championship level and will cost a figure somewhere comparative to what R & R paid for it just to bring in line with the championship shitkickers. You wanna play with the big boys? You'd better have deep pockets. You make a very good point regarding Lawn and Rhodes...no way should either of them be welcomed with opened arms...they are the ones who initially got us in this sorry mess with their pockets full of deutsch marks!
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Post by jose on May 10, 2018 5:17:12 GMT
We have 20k fans but they pay fuck all.
Average ST goes to £250 e.g. how many fans do we have then?
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Post by jose on May 10, 2018 5:20:08 GMT
He's in the T&A again:
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Post by Nice boy on May 10, 2018 5:20:42 GMT
Our season tickets are roughly half the price of other teams. So if we sell 13-14k it will be the same as 6.5-7k season tickets sold. It's no surprise we're as tinpot as we are.
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Grayson
May 10, 2018 6:26:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by Hoochy on May 10, 2018 6:26:42 GMT
Our season tickets are roughly half the price of other teams. So if we sell 13-14k it will be the same as 6.5-7k season tickets sold. It's no surprise we're as tinpot as we are. True, but we should be making double the match revenue in that case. Selling advertising space for more, selling more replica shirts etc.
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Post by Neshead on May 10, 2018 6:44:41 GMT
Our season tickets are roughly half the price of other teams. So if we sell 13-14k it will be the same as 6.5-7k season tickets sold. It's no surprise we're as tinpot as we are. True, but we should be making double the match revenue in that case. Selling advertising space for more, selling more replica shirts etc. Have you forgotten what Bradford's like since you left? We will always struggle to attract major sponsorship, thats why JCT have been around for so long. Extra merchandise sales is welcome but won't make much profit in the grand scheme of things.
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Post by bantam147 on May 10, 2018 7:10:29 GMT
Its time to stop this frugal shite. The owners will have surely undertaken their due diligence when buying the club. The fact that we're so lacking on fundamental infrastructure now becomes their accountability. However, all reasonable fans will understand that what we're faced with is the legacy of a chronic mismanagement of the football club stretching back over many, many years.
The owners need to outline a credible plan for growing the club. In a sense, they've partly done that by sharing their intent to invest in youth and grow the club slowly. I get that. But, it needs more - and more emphasis needs to be placed on supporters doing their bit and paying the going rate.
I'd be well up for a sensible debate. Something along the lines of:
The club needs x investment in infrastructure over the next 3-5 years. Pitch, ground, training facilities, back office and support staff. Lets not forget that we still don't own our ground and whilst the rent is affordable, its still a drain on the playing budget.
If the owners are genuinely in this for the long haul, then a workable plan to invest in those assets has to be address. And its more objective and less risky than simply pumping money into the first team. Buy the ground back - that's something that over a period of however many years, funds itself through saved rent. And you're adding a tangible, capital asset onto the books of the club. It increases the value of the club. Similar point around training. Invest in building a training facility. Another asset for the club - and if you do it right, you can rent out parts of the training facility to local clubs and generate revenue on that basis. Do it as a joint venture to include retail outlets, or a hotel etc. A bit of vision FFS. These are key points that the owners have a responsibility to address.
'Just' by doing that (and I know we're talking about many millions of pounds) they'd demonstrate a belief in the long term model they have and would garner support from fans. Fans CAN be patient, but they need to see progress as part of a working plan.
Now, as for the fans doing their bit. I'd love the owners to come out with a bit of transparency. 'The fact is, our current pricing point builds a budget of around £2m. That IS very much a mid-table budget. A top 6 type budget requires a budget of around £3.5m and would need us to sell 18-20k STs at £250 for full price adults. What do fans want to do? Cheap STs and a mid-table budget, or more expensive STs and a larger budget?'.
Lets HAVE that debate FFS. Because I for one - if there were a commitment around ticket revenue going directly into the playing budget - would be happy to pay more to give the manager the tools to build a quality side. I suspect most others are the same.
We're beyond the point of people only going because its cheap - £250 and say £50 for juniors would still be relatively cheap anyway. And actually, we're seeing that people value quality and value over simply low pricing.
Lets have a sensible debate about what the owners should be investing and what the fans should. I think its a reasonable principle to say that the owners should be addressing the issues around infrastructure at the club - through a mixture of their own capital and generating investment/sponsorship. And actually, that's where money invested actually retains value for the club and the owners investment. Similarly, if they want to invest in a youth development capability, crack on.
And then the second principle is that if fans want a better team, it needs a bigger budget, and it requires fans to buy up in bulk and at a higher price. I think people realise that you get what you pay for.
Lets stop having fans forums that talk about bloody internet memes and name calling, and lets have a proper, balanced debate about what the fans expect from the owners and what we should be demanding of ourselves, to work together to turn us from being tin-pot into something resembling a professional club. Some transparency, honesty, and home truths. It might just heal some of the PR and relationship damage too.
A credible, ambitious but realistic plan that targets us being something better and makes clear the role that everyone has to play.
Come on Mason, sort it.
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Grayson
May 10, 2018 7:10:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by skybantam on May 10, 2018 7:10:50 GMT
I know it is not possible this season, but maybe the ST price just has to go up a bit? Sure people do spend money in the ground and at the club but i also reckon quite a few don't - bring their own snacks etc for the kids, which is fair enough. We'd be better getting a bit of extra revenue in, guaranteed by a rise in the ST price, perhaps? I know many won't probably like it but lets face it, we've lost ST holders anyway through us being shit. It's like a vicious circle, less income because of poor football, then you have less revenue the following season etc. We need to break the cycle somehow. Maybe our owners can make the marketting side of it better and boost matchday income and from merchandise, but i think at some point the ticket price has to be looked at. There's no real easy solution, it's not an affluent city after all and what is being served up on the pitch right now makes it really hard to justify a ticket price rise. If it's not going to be the owners stumping up extra coin then maybe fans have to decide what happens - will they be willing to pay a bit more or keep the status quo?
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Post by jose on May 10, 2018 7:55:12 GMT
The problem is price goes up, sales go down and you're no better off.....
The high numbers of ST holders does cloud the fact, ultimately a winning team with a realistic chance of success will always attract more people.
7th division German shitehawks stumbling around, struggling to trap a balloon will not.
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Post by bantam147 on May 10, 2018 8:30:15 GMT
The problem is price goes up, sales go down But would they? Have we ever had that discussion in the right manner? I don't know of a single person who's said - 'if the price goes up, I won't renew'. I know of plenty who've said 'the quality is shite, we're going nowhere, I'm not renewing'. You've said it yourself right there. People will pay for quality. Our sales dropped between around 2003 - 2010 (?) because we were shite, getting worse year on year and dropping like a fucking stone. The quality was poor and our prospects even worse. People became apathetic. Then there was a concerted push to galvanise the club and re-engage people. Cheap STs were a part of that, buts its become completely assumed that STs need to be a cheap to keep people. Price is a factor, but no more so for Bradford fans than fans of any other club. Its also about value and entertainment. I think its become a self-fulfilling prophecy that we can only attract big numbers through cheap tickets. Give people quality and they'll pay more. I'm convinced of it. At the very least, we should have debating it properly. Hold a proper fans forum, engaging fans across all age and income spectrums and have the discussion. 'If prices for adult STs went up to £250, and it meant the difference between a mid-table budget and a top 6 one, would you renew'? What do fans want? How many are genuinely unable or unwilling to pay more? How many want to pay more as part of a concerted plan to improve the team? I think the whole point around sales dropping if prices go up, is way overstated. If the quality improves, people will pay. What they won't do is pay more to see the same shite.
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Grayson
May 10, 2018 9:04:32 GMT
via mobile
Post by northernmonkey on May 10, 2018 9:04:32 GMT
I've just landed in Malta and am using the airport wifi to read this shit. If there was an award for comedy in sport we'd be runaway winners. Go on then Rupp and Rahic, try to un-fuck this. I’m enjoying this debacle from Kefalonia, went to Malta in January and it’s very pleasant. Enjoy. Two holidays in a year? On the way back I hope the plane goes down quicker than your mum after 2 half's of John Smiths.
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Post by Fat Ade on May 10, 2018 11:53:08 GMT
Its time to stop this frugal shite. The owners will have surely undertaken their due diligence when buying the club. The fact that we're so lacking on fundamental infrastructure now becomes their accountability. However, all reasonable fans will understand that what we're faced with is the legacy of a chronic mismanagement of the football club stretching back over many, many years. The owners need to outline a credible plan for growing the club. In a sense, they've partly done that by sharing their intent to invest in youth and grow the club slowly. I get that. But, it needs more - and more emphasis needs to be placed on supporters doing their bit and paying the going rate. I'd be well up for a sensible debate. Something along the lines of: The club needs x investment in infrastructure over the next 3-5 years. Pitch, ground, training facilities, back office and support staff. Lets not forget that we still don't own our ground and whilst the rent is affordable, its still a drain on the playing budget. If the owners are genuinely in this for the long haul, then a workable plan to invest in those assets has to be address. And its more objective and less risky than simply pumping money into the first team. Buy the ground back - that's something that over a period of however many years, funds itself through saved rent. And you're adding a tangible, capital asset onto the books of the club. It increases the value of the club. Similar point around training. Invest in building a training facility. Another asset for the club - and if you do it right, you can rent out parts of the training facility to local clubs and generate revenue on that basis. Do it as a joint venture to include retail outlets, or a hotel etc. A bit of vision FFS. These are key points that the owners have a responsibility to address. 'Just' by doing that (and I know we're talking about many millions of pounds) they'd demonstrate a belief in the long term model they have and would garner support from fans. Fans CAN be patient, but they need to see progress as part of a working plan. Now, as for the fans doing their bit. I'd love the owners to come out with a bit of transparency. 'The fact is, our current pricing point builds a budget of around £2m. That IS very much a mid-table budget. A top 6 type budget requires a budget of around £3.5m and would need us to sell 18-20k STs at £250 for full price adults. What do fans want to do? Cheap STs and a mid-table budget, or more expensive STs and a larger budget?'. Lets HAVE that debate FFS. Because I for one - if there were a commitment around ticket revenue going directly into the playing budget - would be happy to pay more to give the manager the tools to build a quality side. I suspect most others are the same. We're beyond the point of people only going because its cheap - £250 and say £50 for juniors would still be relatively cheap anyway. And actually, we're seeing that people value quality and value over simply low pricing. Lets have a sensible debate about what the owners should be investing and what the fans should. I think its a reasonable principle to say that the owners should be addressing the issues around infrastructure at the club - through a mixture of their own capital and generating investment/sponsorship. And actually, that's where money invested actually retains value for the club and the owners investment. Similarly, if they want to invest in a youth development capability, crack on. And then the second principle is that if fans want a better team, it needs a bigger budget, and it requires fans to buy up in bulk and at a higher price. I think people realise that you get what you pay for. Lets stop having fans forums that talk about bloody internet memes and name calling, and lets have a proper, balanced debate about what the fans expect from the owners and what we should be demanding of ourselves, to work together to turn us from being tin-pot into something resembling a professional club. Some transparency, honesty, and home truths. It might just heal some of the PR and relationship damage too. A credible, ambitious but realistic plan that targets us being something better and makes clear the role that everyone has to play. Come on Mason, sort it. This is bang on the money....it leads to the question, what did they actually buy for £6.0m? I am not seeing many assets and only a customer book high in volume but low in value.
In regards to putting the prices up for next season, I don't see how they could because of the many many different fuck ups since the turn of the year. They've had a 30% drop already, I suspect it could have been anything up to 50% all things considered.
That being said there does need to be a resetting of the balance for sure and an actual grown up debate without Enid getting his knickers in a twist like petulant fucking child would help to do this.
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Post by bantam147 on May 10, 2018 12:14:08 GMT
Yeah, last summer was the time to really show some ambition, but the ship has sailed.
But I think now IS the time for some transparency about where the club is, where we want to get to and how we get there. Do we accept that our lot is to simply drift in League One at best, with cheap tickets, little supporting infrastructure and a hope that occasional punts on young cast offs from the premier league will propel us?
Or do we want to be more ambitious. I want us to be more ambitious and I'm prepared to put more money in, to that end. But not all fans may feel the same.
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Post by Train (F-2547) on May 10, 2018 12:45:20 GMT
I’m enjoying this debacle from Kefalonia, went to Malta in January and it’s very pleasant. Enjoy. Two holidays in a year? On the way back I hope the plane goes down quicker than your mum after 2 half's of John Smiths. Two holiday to date, there’s a third and fourth booked too. Tory Britain rocks 😄
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Grayson
May 10, 2018 12:47:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by northernmonkey on May 10, 2018 12:47:53 GMT
Two holidays in a year? On the way back I hope the plane goes down quicker than your mum after 2 half's of John Smiths. Two holiday to date, there’s a third and fourth booked too. Tory Britain rocks 😄 😂😂 👍
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Grayson
May 10, 2018 13:47:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by Train (F-2547) on May 10, 2018 13:47:50 GMT
Two holiday to date, there’s a third and fourth booked too. Tory Britain rocks 😄 😂😂 👍 I slapped the taste out of the Greek passport control officers mouth with my British passport too as it’s far superior to his Greek one.
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