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Post by Hobhead on Nov 1, 2022 16:29:49 GMT
Is that what’s happening at City?
I’m a big fan of the patient build up, go back rather than lose it, right back to the keeper playing it to fullbacks just to make sure we keep the ball. When you play patient, possession football though it has to be with a purpose. There has to be the run in behind or the late attack at the post for the final ball - it has to carry a threat.
At the minute we look either too scared to try the late run or risky pass or we’re not capable of it. At the minute we don’t carry nearly enough threat.
Is Hughes asking too much of players at this level to keep the ball and probe away without losing possession? Do players at this level have the ability to come under pressure and still execute the possession-based game plan?
We do keep possession reasonably well but are extremely rigid in our shape with little to no off the ball movement. Opposition teams can accept we’ll have the lion’s share of possession and wait for a chance to win the ball or, even worse for us, play a pressing game. Our rigidity allows the opposition to relax and sit in while we complain of teams coming to VP and parking the bus.
I’d like to see us mix it up a little and not rely too heavily on keeping possession for the sake of it or because we’re too scared to take a more direct risk for fear of falling foul of the manager’s instructions. We need scope to come out of our shape and/or go a bit more direct when the opportunity arises.
All this talk of ‘taking the shackles off’ could just be a case of players being too constricted between their gaffer’s requirements and their limited capabilities. In their flummoxed state they’re not thinking beyond keeping possession and being patient in their build up but consequently neglecting the part where someone needs to take a risk to try and score.
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Post by Lethal Jizzle on Nov 1, 2022 16:50:00 GMT
No.
Stop being all Bantamtalk ya fanny
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Post by Hobhead on Nov 1, 2022 16:51:11 GMT
No. Stop being all Bantamtalk ya fanny Excessively harsh term of abuse. Three minute ban to be served at midnight.
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Post by Lofty on Nov 1, 2022 20:18:49 GMT
League Two is pretty much none league. Don't need this fancy shite.
Look at Parky. Rigid 4-4-2. Direct. Pace out wide, pace up front. It should be simple. Wasn't pretty but it was effective.
How many goals did Wells score when he capitalised on lumbering slow centre Half's fucking up? Cook isn't mobile or quick enough to be the lone striker in our system.
We either need a front man with good movement or support for Cook with 2 up otherwise we'll continue to pass teams to death without threatening.
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Post by Hobhead on Nov 2, 2022 6:30:09 GMT
League Two is pretty much none league. Don't need this fancy shite. Look at Parky. Rigid 4-4-2. Direct. Pace out wide, pace up front. It should be simple. Wasn't pretty but it was effective. How many goals did Wells score when he capitalised on lumbering slow centre Half's fucking up? Cook isn't mobile or quick enough to be the lone striker in our system. We either need a front man with good movement or support for Cook with 2 up otherwise we'll continue to pass teams to death without threatening. Two up front would change things, hopefully giving more options for the final ball and encouraging our players to take more risks with possession. The problem is our squad. If anything I think Hughes would favour a 3-5-2 but we’ve signed a whole legion of wingers and (assuming Halliday and Foulds would be first choice wing backs) we’d have a lot of arses sat on the bench. There’s no way he’s going 4-4-2 due to the snobbery that exists around it in the modern era where everyone has crawled up Pep’s arse but it would suit our squad and our level. It’s all redundant anyway since Hughes has publicly said he won’t be changing tactics regardless because he ‘knows it works’. The fact he’s ever managed anywhere near this level before is neither here nor there though obviously.
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Post by Hobhead on Nov 23, 2022 7:29:21 GMT
The man doesn’t understand the level of football he’s managing at or the quality of players he’s got at his disposal.
He thinks we can probe away like Man City then wait for a mistake and spring the trap or unlock the opposition with a moment of class. In reality players are sticking rigidly to their positions and concentrating solely on not being the one responsible for losing possession.
He’s also stubborn and it’s a problem.
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Post by Lethal Jizzle on Nov 23, 2022 9:59:19 GMT
He's a fucking melon, every man and his dog can see how shit Gilliead and Smallwood are together and how lazy and crap Periera is. Put that with Olivers poor performances and shocking body language he clearly doesn't want to be here. And this tippy tippy passing doesn't work if the players can't pass a ball and move. There's no intensity off the ball and a distinct lack of plan b when things don't work. I mean who the fuck goes in 2 nil down at home at half time doesn't see any of the above and doesn't make any tactical change until we go 3 down and the game has gone.
We're blowing another golden opportunity and a lot of money again aren't we
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Post by Neshead on Nov 23, 2022 10:11:30 GMT
The man doesn’t understand the level of football he’s managing at or the quality of players he’s got at his disposal. He thinks we can probe away like Man City then wait for a mistake and spring the trap or unlock the opposition with a moment of class. In reality players are sticking rigidly to their positions and concentrating solely on not being the one responsible for losing possession. He’s also stubborn and it’s a problem. This is a big factor in our play. Notice how Northampton and Harrogate most recently just patiently waited for us to press the self destruct button, relying on league 2 players to constantly get the passing right is a recipe for disaster. Before Northampton scored we just passed the full length of the field for a shot on goal but it was one success in a first half of poor passing. Remember the Crawley game, i think the Wimbledon game too where we again gave teams chance after chance but either covered the mistake or relied on the opposition being poor as with Crawley. I've gone from feeling quite confident to feeling a bit dissolusioned. Need an active January market to change it around.
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Post by Dick on Nov 23, 2022 11:22:39 GMT
PPs football was grim amd lacked sparkle but at least he had an idea of when to mix things up and try to set the tempo of the game when needed.
Our approach is be patient at all costs. How many games - since 2019 I'd say - have we put opponents under sustained pressure in games? Or when attacking the Kop or when we're a goal down at least?
MH is getting away with a poor home record as the freakish away record covers it. It was the other way around under Bowyer, and when the home form fell he was doomed.
This was the big danger wasn't it? Not realising what the overall standard of what he was getting into. People are saying stop complaining, we're 5th - but we can see MH's total stubbornness mirror that of previous managers who did the same thing in the same position being a real possibility.
December is going to be huge.
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Post by tetchyarse on Nov 23, 2022 11:25:18 GMT
We play defensive football and hit on the break, just like a lower mid-table Premier League team would. Moderately effective away from home, even at this level, but absolutely fucking useless at home.
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Post by Lofty on Nov 23, 2022 11:55:45 GMT
What I wouldn't give for a manager who wants to entertain 18,000 punters.
Can you imagine the atmosphere if we were playing attacking football and dictating the tempo?
The main reason for me fucking off at 60 mins on Saturday was knowing without a doubt that we didn't have it in us to get something from the game. What's the point of watching slow build up play and sideways passing when you're 3-0 down?
2-0 down at half time with a team you know plays on the front foot and you may have faith, 2-0 down at half time with our current set up and the team comes out with the same players, same formation and same intensity - fuck off.
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Post by bantam147 on Nov 24, 2022 12:53:11 GMT
I'm telling you now, our fans would love the sort of football Steve Evans would bring. Direct, attacking, aggressive, a bit nasty. Once it properly goes south for Hughes, we'll have nowhere else to turn.
Hughes ain't pragmatic or humble enough to adapt to L2
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Post by Neshead on Nov 25, 2022 9:07:11 GMT
I'm telling you now, our fans would love the sort of football Steve Evans would bring. Direct, attacking, aggressive, a bit nasty. Once it properly goes south for Hughes, we'll have nowhere else to turn. Hughes ain't pragmatic or humble enough to adapt to L2 Fuck that. I watched Stevenage earlier this season, anyone who likes that never had the right to slag Parkys tactics off ever again.
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Post by Hobhead on Oct 13, 2023 9:21:16 GMT
Bump: x.com/jamieraynor/status/1712537863529836827?s=46&t=lZ4-AgFW7sT7zBTHcjTJ4QEven the players agree with me. Pure speculation here but I’m willing to bet that Hugh3s’ philosophy was one of, ‘keep possession and the chances will present themselves’. Trouble is they don’t. So the fans end up watching the ball being recycled around the back two lines all game while the manager waits for the chances he’s convinced are coming for not other reason than we’ve got the ball. This is especially noticeable at home when teams come to VP and are taken by surprise by our lack of attacking impetus and realise that just sitting tight gives them a fair chance of a point at least. Seventeen thousand people get to watch their team not trying to score and the opposition watching the clock run down or maybe nicking one. Clap that. Anyway, the simpleton has gone now, may he be ever remembered for defending a deficit in the playoffs.
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Post by Dick on Oct 13, 2023 10:37:34 GMT
We haven't seen any kind of decent football - I don't even mean great or good - for what, since McCall V2 was sacked? 5 and a half years of some of the most miserable, boring football and the reluctance of multiple managers to try to generate positivity and enthusiasm at Valley Parade has seen fans' patience finally snap. I know we shit on the players, some more than others, but you wonder how much it does genuinely affect and pain them to be constantly hamstrung by ultra-negative managers. To hear the booing, calling them Mr Dogshit or whatever, when they know they've got to do as they're told and they can only grin and bear it. Other teams probably couldn't believe their luck when they've come here in recent years, to see what a soft touch we are at home. No pressure, set out your plan as you want, the home side will do everything to turn the crowd - you don't even see opponents waste that much time anymore as they know our own set-up does it for them... Even after 18 months I still have no idea how Dinosaur of a manager actually intended for us to win games, other than 'hope Cook scores again'. His forward signings were garbage, as individuals and a team we offered no threat for the most part and it just seemed like Adams, McCallV3 and Bowyer - as Hobhead says, the emphasis has been ‘keep possession and the chances will present themselves’.
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Post by tetchyarse on Oct 13, 2023 14:01:41 GMT
In the lower Premier League the game plan is to play a low block and hit on the break with direct passing and a bit of pace up top. Even at home. I wouldn’t mind so much if we actually played like that under Dinosaur of a manager, petty too, but we didn’t, it was just aimless possession with no end product.
Ironically our opponents at VP do play a low block with direct passing and constantly do us over.
League Two players are going to make mistakes, that’s why they’re in League Two. Passive possession doesn’t work. We don’t need hoofball either but you need to put the oppositions under pressure so they make the mistakes. Tippy-tappy just puts us under pressure when a pass goes astray- which is will, because they’re League Teo players.
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Post by bantam147 on Oct 13, 2023 14:17:32 GMT
It just goes to show - you can have a stellar laying career and be one of the longest serving managers in the Premier League's history, and still not know what you're doing in certain situations. A fan can be thick as fuck. But Fans as a group are generally pretty reliable. And we've all been saying the same stuff for months. I remember back to the start of last season, for the first month or so, waiting for it to click. It never did. Or rather, it did, because the style was in and consistent from the outset. I remember watching us beat Stevenage, was it 3-0? And they were the better side. I knew then that our approach was a problem. And January sealed it. Fucking awful window.
In hindsight, Hughes looks even more arrogant than he seemed at the time.
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Post by Neshead on Oct 13, 2023 15:46:57 GMT
It just goes to show - you can have a stellar laying career and be one of the longest serving managers in the Premier League's history, and still not know what you're doing in certain situations. A fan can be thick as fuck. But Fans as a group are generally pretty reliable. And we've all been saying the same stuff for months. I remember back to the start of last season, for the first month or so, waiting for it to click. It never did. Or rather, it did, because the style was in and consistent from the outset. I remember watching us beat Stevenage, was it 3-0? And they were the better side. I knew then that our approach was a problem. And January sealed it. Fucking awful window. In hindsight, Dinosaur of a manager, petty too looks even more arrogant than he seemed at the time. There's a large section of football fans who are as thick as fuck but generally most us are pretty fair when assessing a game and pretty much all on here call it before any of the other outlets do. It's pretty simple, if you're playing decent football that creates chances you will be successful. You might not go up as football can at times not give you the reward your play deserves but the fans will acknowledge a good season. I guess for every decent manager though there are loads of stubborn bastards who think they know better.
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Post by edin on Oct 14, 2023 9:23:40 GMT
Had a conversation in the car yesterday about whether the players were bottlers or just lost the big games because they had to dictate to a game plan they neither believed in or enjoyed
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Post by Dick on Oct 22, 2023 8:15:29 GMT
I don't know if it's the manager, approach or whatever, but very slightly interesting is that in 4 games under McDonald we've scored 5 goals; not a lot by any means, but scored by 4 different players scoring their first goals for the club.
There seems to be much less over-reliance and pressure on Cook to score. The level of finishing overall hasn't been great, but at least other players are getting the goals.
I don't think Hughes wanted anyone else to score other than Cook at times, almost as if it would upset the perfect game plan he had laid out in his mind; score a goal then defend it to the end.
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