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Post by mikehunt on Nov 25, 2019 12:30:48 GMT
Essentially this. The attitude from the start of this to where we are now has been the same throughout, that if they keep delaying it long enough it will simply go away. That the electorate would never have voted to leave in the first place so what do we do now? Instead of implementing the wishes we'll attack the very people that voted for it with as many different angles of anti brexit we can think of. Best of three, best of five, its all lies, you're all stupid. I wasn't bothered at first about which way the vote went, now i'm more than happy to see the original decision upheld. To not do renders our democratic voting system as irrelevant. At some point we really will have to check if it’s what people still want. If it’s five or forty five years I don’t know, but we don’t just have an election and leave that party in forever. And if we don’t check that the version of Brexit we end up with is acceptable, remoaners will remoan that it’s not what people wanted and Brexshitters will say it’s not Brexity enough for the rest of time. This, when Brexshit goes tits up, as it will, you’ll have cunty chops Farage saying it wasn’t done right, Tories blaming Labour and immigrants, Labour blaming rich people and Israel and Lib Dem’s saying told you so. Boris isn’t getting Brexit done, we’ve another decade or more of this shit
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Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Nov 25, 2019 18:15:42 GMT
Essentially this. The attitude from the start of this to where we are now has been the same throughout, that if they keep delaying it long enough it will simply go away. That the electorate would never have voted to leave in the first place so what do we do now? Instead of implementing the wishes we'll attack the very people that voted for it with as many different angles of anti brexit we can think of. Best of three, best of five, its all lies, you're all stupid. I wasn't bothered at first about which way the vote went, now i'm more than happy to see the original decision upheld. To not do renders our democratic voting system as irrelevant. At some point we really will have to check if it’s what people still want. If it’s five or forty five years I don’t know, but we don’t just have an election and leave that party in forever. And if we don’t check that the version of Brexit we end up with is acceptable, remoaners will remoan that it’s not what people wanted and Brexshitters will say it’s not Brexity enough for the rest of time. There is a clear difference between cancelling a referendum before the result has been implemented and having a periodic general elections every few years. 2016 was sold as a final say once in a generation vote by both sides. Ironically even more so by remain (probably because they thought it was in the bag). Every eligible person had the right to to cast a vote. How and why they voted is their fucking business. Period. The mess we're in now is solely and utterly the fault of (well funded) loudmouth remain activists kicking up a shitstorm and acting like spoilt elitist brats. Scrambling, panicking, backtracking, smearing, threatening, bullshitting, basically using anything everything at their disposal to stop brexit. The whole 'hard/soft brexit' trope is just a retrospective narrative designed to muddy the waters and shift the debate. Instead of leave or remain we have 'Bojo's far right disastrous nazi cliff edge catastrophic we're all gonna die No Deal brexit' vs defacto remain vs remain. If labour get in it will be remainers' deal vs remain therefore a pointless exercise. One thing that strikes me about 'intellectual' remainers is how viciously they stonewall any dissenting opinions. Its almost like they have been gifted a legitimate reason to resent the smelly working classes. And they're not letting go. The veneer of liberal tolerance disappears. 'How dare stupid people threaten my privilege'
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Post by Bacon on Nov 25, 2019 18:31:49 GMT
At some point we really will have to check if it’s what people still want. If it’s five or forty five years I don’t know, but we don’t just have an election and leave that party in forever. And if we don’t check that the version of Brexit we end up with is acceptable, remoaners will remoan that it’s not what people wanted and Brexshitters will say it’s not Brexity enough for the rest of time. There is a clear difference between cancelling a referendum before the result has been implemented and having a periodic general elections every few years. 2016 was sold as a final say once in a generation vote by both sides. Ironically even more so by remain (probably because they thought it was in the bag). Every eligible person had the right to to cast a vote. How and why they voted is their fucking business. Period. The mess we're in now is solely and utterly the fault of (well funded) loudmouth remain activists kicking up a shitstorm and acting like spoilt elitist brats. Scrambling, panicking, backtracking, smearing, threatening, bullshitting, basically using anything everything at their disposal to stop brexit. The whole 'hard/soft brexit' trope is just a retrospective narrative designed to muddy the waters and shift the debate. Instead of leave or remain we have 'Bojo's far right disastrous nazi cliff edge catastrophic we're all gonna die No Deal brexit' vs defacto remain vs remain. If labour get in it will be remainers' deal vs remain therefore a pointless exercise. One thing that strikes me about 'intellectual' remainers is how viciously they stonewall any dissenting opinions. Its almost like they have been gifted a legitimate reason to resent the smelly working classes. And they're not letting go. The veneer of liberal tolerance disappears. 'How dare stupid people threaten my privilege' Put you down as undecided, OK?
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Nov 25, 2019 20:26:07 GMT
At some point we really will have to check if it’s what people still want. If it’s five or forty five years I don’t know, but we don’t just have an election and leave that party in forever. And if we don’t check that the version of Brexit we end up with is acceptable, remoaners will remoan that it’s not what people wanted and Brexshitters will say it’s not Brexity enough for the rest of time. There is a clear difference between cancelling a referendum before the result has been implemented and having a periodic general elections every few years. 2016 was sold as a final say once in a generation vote by both sides. Ironically even more so by remain (probably because they thought it was in the bag). Every eligible person had the right to to cast a vote. How and why they voted is their fucking business. Period. The mess we're in now is solely and utterly the fault of (well funded) loudmouth remain activists kicking up a shitstorm and acting like spoilt elitist brats. Scrambling, panicking, backtracking, smearing, threatening, bullshitting, basically using anything everything at their disposal to stop brexit. The whole 'hard/soft brexit' trope is just a retrospective narrative designed to muddy the waters and shift the debate. Instead of leave or remain we have 'Bojo's far right disastrous nazi cliff edge catastrophic we're all gonna die No Deal brexit' vs defacto remain vs remain. If labour get in it will be remainers' deal vs remain therefore a pointless exercise. One thing that strikes me about 'intellectual' remainers is how viciously they stonewall any dissenting opinions. Its almost like they have been gifted a legitimate reason to resent the smelly working classes. And they're not letting go. The veneer of liberal tolerance disappears. 'How dare stupid people threaten my privilege' If hard/soft brexit has only come up after the fact, why was Nigel Farage talking about leaving on similar terms to Norway during the referendum campaign? And that’s leaving aside the fact that it was Avery close result and probably a mandate for quite a close relationship with the Eu post brexit. We voted by four per cent to leave, but there’s never been any attempt to find a way forward that might be ok with the 20-30% who probably came down narrowly in favour of the status quo. I’m afraid I disagree with whose fault it is that we haven’t left yet. Boris has his deal approved in principle but didn’t want anybody to look at it to closely cos he knows its shit. He pulled it, not remainders. The erg and boris voted repeatedly against Theresa mays deal. Which kind of proves my point that because it was never defined the possibility of the winners not knowing what to do with their victory was always going to play out, and will continue to. It’s not cancelling the referendum, it’s just checking. Its a massive change, tons of time has passed and we know what is feasible now. It’s an entirely logical stance. As for your last point, maybe just get the chip off your shoulder mate. Also I think leave would win a second referendum.
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claw
Hot Water Tank Bantam
Posts: 713
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Post by claw on Nov 25, 2019 20:35:40 GMT
Someone come and get uncle knobhead.
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Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Nov 25, 2019 23:40:18 GMT
I’m afraid I disagree with whose fault it is that we haven’t left yet. Boris has his deal approved in principle but didn’t want anybody to look at it to closely cos he knows its shit. He pulled it, not remainders. The erg and boris voted repeatedly against Theresa mays deal. Which kind of proves my point that because it was never defined the possibility of the winners not knowing what to do with their victory was always going to play out, and will continue to. It’s not cancelling the referendum, it’s just checking. Its a massive change, tons of time has passed and we know what is feasible now. It’s an entirely logical stance. As for your last point, maybe just get the chip off your shoulder mate. Also I think leave would win a second referendum. Boris and the ERG did, eventually and begrudgingly, back May's deal. Boris pulled his own deal because the program motion was voted down, which would have opened the door to further amendments which in tern would have made it impossible to get the deal ratified by the Oct 31st deadline. Hence the only way out was a general election. Parliament only had to debate the sections which differed from May's deal ie. the backstop. So the argument that they 'didn't have enough time' to scrutinise it doesn't hold water. Even more so the fact many remain MPs 'reviewed' and rejected the deal within minutes of it being announced. They can't have it both ways. I take the point that Farage initially rejected Boris's deal. But even he eventually caved in a acknowledging that Boris's deal was a step in the right direction. Boris's deal is the compromise you allude to. So when it failed to get through parliament the penny dropped, among both leavers and remainers, that the real goal of parliament was to block brexit at any cost. Hence why i agree that leave would win a second referendum. But the act of having a second referendum, not least a rigged one, would damage to peoples perception of our system beyond repair. The illusion we live in a democracy would be be utterly shattered. It's simply not worth it imo.
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Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Nov 25, 2019 23:52:50 GMT
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Post by Neshead on Nov 26, 2019 7:46:39 GMT
There is a clear difference between cancelling a referendum before the result has been implemented and having a periodic general elections every few years. 2016 was sold as a final say once in a generation vote by both sides. Ironically even more so by remain (probably because they thought it was in the bag). Every eligible person had the right to to cast a vote. How and why they voted is their fucking business. Period. The mess we're in now is solely and utterly the fault of (well funded) loudmouth remain activists kicking up a shitstorm and acting like spoilt elitist brats. Scrambling, panicking, backtracking, smearing, threatening, bullshitting, basically using anything everything at their disposal to stop brexit. The whole 'hard/soft brexit' trope is just a retrospective narrative designed to muddy the waters and shift the debate. Instead of leave or remain we have 'Bojo's far right disastrous nazi cliff edge catastrophic we're all gonna die No Deal brexit' vs defacto remain vs remain. If labour get in it will be remainers' deal vs remain therefore a pointless exercise. One thing that strikes me about 'intellectual' remainers is how viciously they stonewall any dissenting opinions. Its almost like they have been gifted a legitimate reason to resent the smelly working classes. And they're not letting go. The veneer of liberal tolerance disappears. 'How dare stupid people threaten my privilege' If hard/soft brexit has only come up after the fact, why was Nigel Farage talking about leaving on similar terms to Norway during the referendum campaign? And that’s leaving aside the fact that it was Avery close result and probably a mandate for quite a close relationship with the Eu post brexit. We voted by four per cent to leave, but there’s never been any attempt to find a way forward that might be ok with the 20-30% who probably came down narrowly in favour of the status quo. I’m afraid I disagree with whose fault it is that we haven’t left yet. Boris has his deal approved in principle but didn’t want anybody to look at it to closely cos he knows its shit. He pulled it, not remainders. The erg and boris voted repeatedly against Theresa mays deal. Which kind of proves my point that because it was never defined the possibility of the winners not knowing what to do with their victory was always going to play out, and will continue to. It’s not cancelling the referendum, it’s just checking. Its a massive change, tons of time has passed and we know what is feasible now. It’s an entirely logical stance. As for your last point, maybe just get the chip off your shoulder mate. Also I think leave would win a second referendum. A second referendum will be immaterial when Boris wins the next election.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Nov 26, 2019 10:50:37 GMT
If hard/soft brexit has only come up after the fact, why was Nigel Farage talking about leaving on similar terms to Norway during the referendum campaign? And that’s leaving aside the fact that it was Avery close result and probably a mandate for quite a close relationship with the Eu post brexit. We voted by four per cent to leave, but there’s never been any attempt to find a way forward that might be ok with the 20-30% who probably came down narrowly in favour of the status quo. I’m afraid I disagree with whose fault it is that we haven’t left yet. Boris has his deal approved in principle but didn’t want anybody to look at it to closely cos he knows its shit. He pulled it, not remainders. The erg and boris voted repeatedly against Theresa mays deal. Which kind of proves my point that because it was never defined the possibility of the winners not knowing what to do with their victory was always going to play out, and will continue to. It’s not cancelling the referendum, it’s just checking. Its a massive change, tons of time has passed and we know what is feasible now. It’s an entirely logical stance. As for your last point, maybe just get the chip off your shoulder mate. Also I think leave would win a second referendum. A second referendum will be immaterial when Boris wins the next election. For a bit yeah, but it’ll come back. Official BeagrieScissorTackle predictions are as follows: Tory: 302 (-15) Lab: 210 (-32) SNP: 59 (+24) Lib Dem: 28 (+8) Brex: 5 (+5) PC: 6 (+2) Green 1 (0) Ind: +5 A bit of shuffling around the other parties with the remainder. Swinson and IDS to lose their seats. Super Soubry to keep hers. NB this is what I expect, not want.
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Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Nov 26, 2019 15:47:50 GMT
A second referendum will be immaterial when Boris wins the next election. For a bit yeah, but it’ll come back. Official BeagrieScissorTackle predictions are as follows: Tory: 302 (-15) Lab: 210 (-32) SNP: 59 (+24) Lib Dem: 28 (+8) Brex: 5 (+5) PC: 6 (+2) Green 1 (0) Ind: +5 A bit of shuffling around the other parties with the remainder. Swinson and IDS to lose their seats. Super Soubry to keep hers.
NB this is what I expect, not want. I expect Real Madrid to bid £40million for Omari Patrick.
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Post by Neshead on Nov 26, 2019 20:57:15 GMT
Corbyn in best car crash TV you'll see in years earlier. Wonderful scenes.
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Post by hobbes on Nov 26, 2019 23:49:03 GMT
Some of these posts are far too long to hold my attention. Split them up, maybe have photos of brightly coloured trainers to keep me interested, then I might join in.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Nov 27, 2019 8:00:19 GMT
Corbyn in best car crash TV you'll see in years earlier. Wonderful scenes. Let’s hope he doesn’t read this eh? His confidence will be shot.
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Post by Neshead on Nov 27, 2019 10:12:18 GMT
Corbyn in best car crash TV you'll see in years earlier. Wonderful scenes. Let’s hope he doesn’t read this eh? His confidence will be shot. JustgetgehindthejewhatingcommiebastardFFS.
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Post by Hobhead on Dec 4, 2019 14:39:54 GMT
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Dec 4, 2019 16:38:15 GMT
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Post by Hobhead on Dec 4, 2019 16:43:16 GMT
I agree but it’s still stark when you see it like that.
One worry for Labour has to be the fact that the younger end are traditionally the least likely to vote.
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Post by Lofty on Dec 4, 2019 19:13:56 GMT
I agree but it’s still stark when you see it like that. One worry for Labour has to be the fact that the younger end are traditionally the least likely to vote. Younger people are more gullible, who'd have thought it? I'd imagine that graph trend will never change.
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Post by Neshead on Dec 4, 2019 19:20:01 GMT
You could interpret this in different ways in that the younger sections of the electorate are turning towards labour but as people get older they start to vote Conservative. Its like they start off with good intentions then come to their senses as the years go on.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Dec 4, 2019 21:42:41 GMT
Or that people get more selfish and can’t see beyond the end of their own garden to what they could have as they get older.
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