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Post by Bacon on Aug 18, 2018 9:43:25 GMT
Get away from Edin's model/plan because despite all the talk, he's not implementing it. The only way he will truly destroy the club is if he went full retard with his philosophy and filled the first team with a load of untested youth players. His only mistake this summer (and potentially a massive one) was implementing an amateur coaching team who seemingly have no idea what they are doing. It's frustrating because he's actually got a lot right this summer. When was the last we were able to afford players like Scannel at this level? If we have another season of failure, it'll be a shame because he'd have undone all the good stuff. If only he put his ego to one side and backed McCall on the same level, we'd be in the Championship right now. The positive is that with a proper manager, allowed to manage, we'd probably do ok. Say what you like but this seasons squad is hugely better than last years, and when you consider how that over achieved early on it shows what can be done in this shitty division.
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Post by ricksanchez on Aug 18, 2018 9:49:53 GMT
Get away from Edin's model/plan because despite all the talk, he's not implementing it. The only way he will truly destroy the club is if he went full retard with his philosophy and filled the first team with a load of untested youth players. His only mistake this summer (and potentially a massive one) was implementing an amateur coaching team who seemingly have no idea what they are doing. It's frustrating because he's actually got a lot right this summer. When was the last we were able to afford players like Scannel at this level? If we have another season of failure, it'll be a shame because he'd have undone all the good stuff. If only he put his ego to one side and backed McCall on the same level, we'd be in the Championship right now. It's down to his contempt for any qualified opinions. You'll notice that all the coaching staff were already on the payroll. No new blood has come in off the pitch, only more people have left. With the salaries of the likes of McCall/Grayson, Kenny Black, James Mason no longer required then I think that's how we can afford a few other players. I also believe that we will end the season in debt (with a deficit). Just on Scannel, and I am not basing this on a huge amount of data, but gut feel from what I have seen so far is that Scannell is just another Paul Anderson. I can't see him being any more productive than Kyel Reid at his best. I think he will spend the majority of the season injured / failing to live up to expectations. Payne is in the shop window for a January sale at Huddersfield and the rest of the signings are of no higher calibre than those made by Parky during the heady days of Lawn and Rhodes. We have not progressed under the new owners we have gone backwards. The "plan" has mutated back into the tried and tested, however the people who are operating that tried and tested model are the least qualified that we've ever had. (I recognise I am now repeating myself here)
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Post by BingomoanyBob on Aug 18, 2018 9:54:06 GMT
Yet another worrying thing to add to the ever growing list is Dieng's interview in the T and A. When someone as consistently abject as he was, the legendary Guiseley game apart, wants out because of the 'weird' atmosphere you really have to ask how much worse can it get, results aside?
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Post by mikehunt on Aug 18, 2018 9:58:30 GMT
Get away from Edin's model/plan because despite all the talk, he's not implementing it. The only way he will truly destroy the club is if he went full retard with his philosophy and filled the first team with a load of untested youth players. His only mistake this summer (and potentially a massive one) was implementing an amateur coaching team who seemingly have no idea what they are doing. It's frustrating because he's actually got a lot right this summer. When was the last we were able to afford players like Scannel at this level? If we have another season of failure, it'll be a shame because he'd have undone all the good stuff. If only he put his ego to one side and backed McCall on the same level, we'd be in the Championship right now. It's down to his contempt for any qualified opinions. You'll notice that all the coaching staff were already on the payroll. No new blood has come in off the pitch, only more people have left. With the salaries of the likes of McCall/Grayson, Kenny Black, James Mason no longer required then I think that's how we can afford a few other players. I also believe that we will end the season in debt (with a deficit). Just on Scannel, and I am not basing this on a huge amount of data, but gut feel from what I have seen so far is that Scannell is just another Paul Anderson. I can't see him being any more productive than Kyel Reid at his best. I think he will spend the majority of the season injured / failing to live up to expectations. Payne is in the shop window for a January sale at Huddersfield and the rest of the signings are of no higher calibre than those made by Parky during the heady days of Lawn and Rhodes. We have not progressed under the new owners we have gone backwards. The "plan" has mutated back into the tried and tested, however the people who are operating that tried and tested model are the least qualified that we've ever had. (I recognise I am now repeating myself here) He might have got the coaching staff and Mason off the payroll, but I’d bet the backroom staff, PR officers, Commercial staff and so on has increased.
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Post by ricksanchez on Aug 18, 2018 10:01:25 GMT
It's down to his contempt for any qualified opinions. You'll notice that all the coaching staff were already on the payroll. No new blood has come in off the pitch, only more people have left. With the salaries of the likes of McCall/Grayson, Kenny Black, James Mason no longer required then I think that's how we can afford a few other players. I also believe that we will end the season in debt (with a deficit). Just on Scannel, and I am not basing this on a huge amount of data, but gut feel from what I have seen so far is that Scannell is just another Paul Anderson. I can't see him being any more productive than Kyel Reid at his best. I think he will spend the majority of the season injured / failing to live up to expectations. Payne is in the shop window for a January sale at Huddersfield and the rest of the signings are of no higher calibre than those made by Parky during the heady days of Lawn and Rhodes. We have not progressed under the new owners we have gone backwards. The "plan" has mutated back into the tried and tested, however the people who are operating that tried and tested model are the least qualified that we've ever had. (I recognise I am now repeating myself here) He might have got the coaching staff and Mason off the payroll, but I’d bet the backroom staff, PR officers, Commercial staff and so on has increased. That's true. PR these days is awesome. And we have "anthem jackets".
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Post by Nice boy on Aug 18, 2018 10:25:17 GMT
Get away from Edin's model/plan because despite all the talk, he's not implementing it. The only way he will truly destroy the club is if he went full retard with his philosophy and filled the first team with a load of untested youth players. His only mistake this summer (and potentially a massive one) was implementing an amateur coaching team who seemingly have no idea what they are doing. It's frustrating because he's actually got a lot right this summer. When was the last we were able to afford players like Scannel at this level? If we have another season of failure, it'll be a shame because he'd have undone all the good stuff. If only he put his ego to one side and backed McCall on the same level, we'd be in the Championship right now. It's down to his contempt for any qualified opinions. You'll notice that all the coaching staff were already on the payroll. No new blood has come in off the pitch, only more people have left. With the salaries of the likes of McCall/Grayson, Kenny Black, James Mason no longer required then I think that's how we can afford a few other players. I also believe that we will end the season in debt (with a deficit). Just on Scannel, and I am not basing this on a huge amount of data, but gut feel from what I have seen so far is that Scannell is just another Paul Anderson. I can't see him being any more productive than Kyel Reid at his best. I think he will spend the majority of the season injured / failing to live up to expectations. Payne is in the shop window for a January sale at Huddersfield and the rest of the signings are of no higher calibre than those made by Parky during the heady days of Lawn and Rhodes. We have not progressed under the new owners we have gone backwards. The "plan" has mutated back into the tried and tested, however the people who are operating that tried and tested model are the least qualified that we've ever had. (I recognise I am now repeating myself here) I strongly disagree that we have gone backwards under the current ownership. Whichever way you look at it, players such as O'Connor, McGowan, Scannell, Akpan, Mellor etc (even if they all turn out to be crap) is a clear step up from the likes of Kennedy, Knott and Sheehan, which is what we were signing when we didn't have a cup run to rely on. I think our fans in general look back on the Lawn era with rose tinted glasses. Once our luck with cup runs ran out we would have found out what mediocre really looks like. We were skint and even more tinpot than we are now. Could you imagine the outrage if Rahic ran an upgrade the parade campaign to raise a measly 100k? Our current owners whilst not rich have the financial clout to take us further than Lawn and Rhodes who could barely keep us afloat in league 2, the only thing which grates have been Rahic's very questionable decisions. He's learnt from some of his mistakes (better recruitment, not implementing his model) and once the Collins era is over, if he learns again and gives us a proper manager than we are without a doubt better off under Rahic and Rupp in the long run.
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Post by ricksanchez on Aug 18, 2018 11:03:48 GMT
It's down to his contempt for any qualified opinions. You'll notice that all the coaching staff were already on the payroll. No new blood has come in off the pitch, only more people have left. With the salaries of the likes of McCall/Grayson, Kenny Black, James Mason no longer required then I think that's how we can afford a few other players. I also believe that we will end the season in debt (with a deficit). Just on Scannel, and I am not basing this on a huge amount of data, but gut feel from what I have seen so far is that Scannell is just another Paul Anderson. I can't see him being any more productive than Kyel Reid at his best. I think he will spend the majority of the season injured / failing to live up to expectations. Payne is in the shop window for a January sale at Huddersfield and the rest of the signings are of no higher calibre than those made by Parky during the heady days of Lawn and Rhodes. We have not progressed under the new owners we have gone backwards. The "plan" has mutated back into the tried and tested, however the people who are operating that tried and tested model are the least qualified that we've ever had. (I recognise I am now repeating myself here) I strongly disagree that we have gone backwards under the current ownership. Whichever way you look at it, players such as O'Connor, McGowan, Scannell, Akpan, Mellor etc (even if they all turn out to be crap) is a clear step up from the likes of Kennedy, Knott and Sheehan, which is what we were signing when we didn't have a cup run to rely on. I think our fans in general look back on the Lawn era with rose tinted glasses. Once our luck with cup runs ran out we would have found out what mediocre really looks like. We were skint and even more tinpot than we are now. Could you imagine the outrage if Rahic ran an upgrade the parade campaign to raise a measly 100k? Our current owners whilst not rich have the financial clout to take us further than Lawn and Rhodes who could barely keep us afloat in league 2, the only thing which grates have been Rahic's very questionable decisions. He's learnt from some of his mistakes (better recruitment, not implementing his model) and once the Collins era is over, if he learns again and gives us a proper manager than we are without a doubt better off under Rahic and Rupp in the long run. As much as there were shockers signed under that regime there were always stand out players as well. It's pretty normal as a mid table team in league one to have maybe 3 or 4 very good (for the level) players among 7 or 8 average players and then 5 or 6 total punts. I think it's a little unfair then to compare the most promising looking signings this season with our most abject failures from the past. I honestly don't think that any finances are flooding into the club from Germany whatsoever as I believe we would be hearing about it (from the rooftops) if it were the case. We've sold Wyke to keep us afloat for now but after that, who is our next saleable asset? It appears to me that we've bet the house on the likes of Doyle, Payne and Scannel having blinders and dragging everyone else up to a decent level with them. It will be deficit time again after this season, I will be amazed if it isn't.
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Post by Hobhead on Aug 18, 2018 11:19:59 GMT
It appears to me that we've bet the house on the likes of Doyle, Payne and Scannel having blinders and dragging everyone else up to a decent level with them. It will be deficit time again after this season, I will be amazed if it isn't. Especially when/if there's a further reduction in season ticket sales.
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Post by Nice boy on Aug 18, 2018 11:46:34 GMT
I strongly disagree that we have gone backwards under the current ownership. Whichever way you look at it, players such as O'Connor, McGowan, Scannell, Akpan, Mellor etc (even if they all turn out to be crap) is a clear step up from the likes of Kennedy, Knott and Sheehan, which is what we were signing when we didn't have a cup run to rely on. I think our fans in general look back on the Lawn era with rose tinted glasses. Once our luck with cup runs ran out we would have found out what mediocre really looks like. We were skint and even more tinpot than we are now. Could you imagine the outrage if Rahic ran an upgrade the parade campaign to raise a measly 100k? Our current owners whilst not rich have the financial clout to take us further than Lawn and Rhodes who could barely keep us afloat in league 2, the only thing which grates have been Rahic's very questionable decisions. He's learnt from some of his mistakes (better recruitment, not implementing his model) and once the Collins era is over, if he learns again and gives us a proper manager than we are without a doubt better off under Rahic and Rupp in the long run. As much as there were shockers signed under that regime there were always stand out players as well. It's pretty normal as a mid table team in league one to have maybe 3 or 4 very good (for the level) players among 7 or 8 average players and then 5 or 6 total punts. I think it's a little unfair then to compare the most promising looking signings this season with our most abject failures from the past. I honestly don't think that any finances are flooding into the club from Germany whatsoever as I believe we would be hearing about it (from the rooftops) if it were the case. We've sold Wyke to keep us afloat for now but after that, who is our next saleable asset? It appears to me that we've bet the house on the likes of Doyle, Payne and Scannel having blinders and dragging everyone else up to a decent level with them. It will be deficit time again after this season, I will be amazed if it isn't. We did sign some good players under the last regime but they were all signed on the back of big budgets which we could only provide due to pending sell on clauses and cup runs. Without it, we signed some utter dross. We can now sign decent-good players without relying on additional income. To succeed, we really need elements of both era's. Rhodes and Lawn getting on with the business side of things (employing an experienced manager, employing the correct staff etc )with Rupp as the money man. That will work well. The biggest hindrance is Rahic and our long term prospects are going to depend on how quickly he learns.
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Post by citygentile on Aug 18, 2018 12:12:21 GMT
It's down to his contempt for any qualified opinions. You'll notice that all the coaching staff were already on the payroll. No new blood has come in off the pitch, only more people have left. With the salaries of the likes of McCall/Grayson, Kenny Black, James Mason no longer required then I think that's how we can afford a few other players. I also believe that we will end the season in debt (with a deficit). Just on Scannel, and I am not basing this on a huge amount of data, but gut feel from what I have seen so far is that Scannell is just another Paul Anderson. I can't see him being any more productive than Kyel Reid at his best. I think he will spend the majority of the season injured / failing to live up to expectations. Payne is in the shop window for a January sale at Huddersfield and the rest of the signings are of no higher calibre than those made by Parky during the heady days of Lawn and Rhodes. We have not progressed under the new owners we have gone backwards. The "plan" has mutated back into the tried and tested, however the people who are operating that tried and tested model are the least qualified that we've ever had. (I recognise I am now repeating myself here) I strongly disagree that we have gone backwards under the current ownership. Whichever way you look at it, players such as O'Connor, McGowan, Scannell, Akpan, Mellor etc (even if they all turn out to be crap) is a clear step up from the likes of Kennedy, Knott and Sheehan, which is what we were signing when we didn't have a cup run to rely on. I think our fans in general look back on the Lawn era with rose tinted glasses. Once our luck with cup runs ran out we would have found out what mediocre really looks like. We were skint and even more tinpot than we are now. Could you imagine the outrage if Rahic ran an upgrade the parade campaign to raise a measly 100k? Our current owners whilst not rich have the financial clout to take us further than Lawn and Rhodes who could barely keep us afloat in league 2, the only thing which grates have been Rahic's very questionable decisions. He's learnt from some of his mistakes (better recruitment, not implementing his model) and once the Collins era is over, if he learns again and gives us a proper manager than we are without a doubt better off under Rahic and Rupp in the long run. I agree that this summer's recruitment has been fairly decent. Whilst these players look theoretically good, it's performances that ultimately matter. One thing that Parkinson did well was get what looked like fairly average players playing as an effective team and beyond fans expectations. I'm yet to be convinced that Collins can do something similar, despite his protestations about 'being around football for a long time' etc, he's a total novice at the job he's ended up with. Admittedly it's still early days and still achievable. Perhaps this season the team will get better as the months advance, rather than start off well but then fade away.
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Post by ricksanchez on Aug 18, 2018 12:29:03 GMT
As much as there were shockers signed under that regime there were always stand out players as well. It's pretty normal as a mid table team in league one to have maybe 3 or 4 very good (for the level) players among 7 or 8 average players and then 5 or 6 total punts. I think it's a little unfair then to compare the most promising looking signings this season with our most abject failures from the past. I honestly don't think that any finances are flooding into the club from Germany whatsoever as I believe we would be hearing about it (from the rooftops) if it were the case. We've sold Wyke to keep us afloat for now but after that, who is our next saleable asset? It appears to me that we've bet the house on the likes of Doyle, Payne and Scannel having blinders and dragging everyone else up to a decent level with them. It will be deficit time again after this season, I will be amazed if it isn't. We did sign some good players under the last regime but they were all signed on the back of big budgets which we could only provide due to pending sell on clauses and cup runs. Without it, we signed some utter dross. We can now sign decent-good players without relying on additional income. To succeed, we really need elements of both era's. Rhodes and Lawn getting on with the business side of things (employing an experienced manager, employing the correct staff etc )with Rupp as the money man. That will work well. The biggest hindrance is Rahic and our long term prospects are going to depend on how quickly he learns. I am still unconvinced that they are adding money to the pot and having to watch that learning process you mention run it's course is, to me, why I think we have regressed. If we end up 5 years down the line, having bumped along between mid table and play off failure, only to reach the realisation that the best chance we have got to progress as a club is to employ the best manager, coaches and players possible within our budget (and have a larger than average budget);- then we haven't learnt anything we didn't already know before the takeover. The cost of watching Rahic learn is already taking it's toll (drop in season ticket sales, loss of good will from fans) and this further compounds the regression in my opinion. The idea that we've potentially years of this ahead before the penny drops with our fractious owner - makes me doubt my ongoing interest in our club.
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Post by Lofty on Aug 18, 2018 12:59:46 GMT
We did sign some good players under the last regime but they were all signed on the back of big budgets which we could only provide due to pending sell on clauses and cup runs. Without it, we signed some utter dross. We can now sign decent-good players without relying on additional income. To succeed, we really need elements of both era's. Rhodes and Lawn getting on with the business side of things (employing an experienced manager, employing the correct staff etc )with Rupp as the money man. That will work well. The biggest hindrance is Rahic and our long term prospects are going to depend on how quickly he learns. I am still unconvinced that they are adding money to the pot and having to watch that learning process you mention run it's course is, to me, why I think we have regressed. If we end up 5 years down the line, having bumped along between mid table and play off failure, only to reach the realisation that the best chance we have got to progress as a club is to employ the best manager, coaches and players possible within our budget (and have a larger than average budget);- then we haven't learnt anything we didn't already know before the takeover. The cost of watching Rahic learn is already taking it's toll (drop in season ticket prices, loss of good will from fans) and this further compounds the regression in my opinion. The idea that we've potentially years of this ahead before the penny drops with our fractious owner - makes me doubt my ongoing interest in our club. Sums up my view. We've regressed due to the sole aim being we'll be more equipped to handle the Championship should we get there. It's looking a long fucking way off. I'd have preferred to have got there and then worried about staying there. I could even half forgive this approach if we were hoovering up the best young talent. Who've we got, Patrick, Gibson, Wood, Isherwood, Colville etc. Fuck me they ain't even good enough for league one and most are in their 20's, how the fuck are they gonna contribute to success in the Championship?
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Post by Hobhead on Aug 18, 2018 13:03:14 GMT
I am still unconvinced that they are adding money to the pot and having to watch that learning process you mention run it's course is, to me, why I think we have regressed. If we end up 5 years down the line, having bumped along between mid table and play off failure, only to reach the realisation that the best chance we have got to progress as a club is to employ the best manager, coaches and players possible within our budget (and have a larger than average budget);- then we haven't learnt anything we didn't already know before the takeover. The cost of watching Rahic learn is already taking it's toll (drop in season ticket prices, loss of good will from fans) and this further compounds the regression in my opinion. The idea that we've potentially years of this ahead before the penny drops with our fractious owner - makes me doubt my ongoing interest in our club. Sums up my view. We've regressed due to the sole aim being we'll be more equipped to handle the Championship should we get there. It's looking a long fucking way off. I'd have preferred to have got there and then worried about staying there. I could even half forgive this approach if we were hoovering up the best young talent. Who've we got, Patrick, Gibson, Wood, Isherwood, Colville etc. Fuck me they ain't even good enough for league one and most are in their 20's, how the fuck are they gonna contribute to success in the Championship? It's fucking clueless is what it is. Our recruitment is clueless. Our managerial appointment is clueless. Edin is clueless. Even our 'European scout' is clueless. I feel like I'm watching a bunch of amateurs fuck about, have a laugh, play at being football men while using our club to try and learn the ropes. This whole set up is dangerous and it could take years to recover from it once he's done bumbling around like a chuckling gnome.
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Post by Nice boy on Sept 4, 2018 20:45:09 GMT
Looks like we were spot on with this one. Who voted 'hit' !?
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Post by ricksanchez on Sept 4, 2018 21:05:14 GMT
Looks like we were spot on with this one. Who voted 'hit' !? Roger Tart, surely
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Post by Attentive Onlooker on Sept 4, 2018 21:39:51 GMT
Looks like we were spot on with this one. Who voted 'hit' !? Roger Tart, surely Guilty. I'm trying to help.
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yungnath
Sparks is a cunt Bantam
Posts: 197
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Post by yungnath on May 2, 2019 16:21:39 GMT
Looks like we were spot on with this one. Who voted 'hit' !? yupp, you guys fully called it right yet again. BT for the fluff and having a little gomp, TCA for the cold hard and ultimately depressing reality.
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Post by Neshead on May 2, 2019 17:34:13 GMT
Remember on the other forum when Collins was appointed, even though you know full well its going to end all fucked up the usual halfwits were still banging on about giving the lad a chance FFS and the classic 'well Jewell and Kamara had no experience and that turned out well'. No wonder our club is the khazi league, its what our fans demand.
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Post by Dick on May 2, 2019 18:14:00 GMT
It just goes to show there is actual justification in not giving someone a chance. Sometimes you know something is dreadfully wrong from the start and will never be right, no matter how much you get behind or how hard you clap.
After everything that had been going on over the previous 12 months, that decision epitomised the entire summer - complete and total football suicide.
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Post by Hobhead on May 3, 2019 10:07:32 GMT
It just goes to show there is actual justification in not giving someone a chance. Sometimes you know something is dreadfully wrong from the start and will never be right, no matter how much you get behind or how hard you clap. After everything that had been going on over the previous 12 months, that decision epitomised the entire summer - complete and total football suicide. I’d go further than there being justification; blindly getting behind things just because ‘it’s City, you’re a supporter and that’s what real supporters do’ is damaging. Questioning decisions and pressuring the club to do better is the healthier option. A rogue chairman is much more likely to think twice about a piss take appointment like Collins if he knows the fans are more likely to angrily reject it than our rythmicly clapping, nodding, lap rugs. Hence The Cow’s Arse continual derision of all things #jgbtlffs. Just get behind the derision ffs.
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