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Post by Dennis on Aug 28, 2019 10:19:36 GMT
Unfortunately, the EFL's test of ownership isn't about the person being 'fit and proper' since that implies a level of competence in either football ownership or in business. I think we'd all recognise that a person with 43 liquidations behind him is short of business acumen! The Owners & Directors test (as it's really known), is only concerned with criminal convictions for fraud, tax evasion and similar types of crimes. It doesn't stop anybody with a dubious business background, including a string of liquidated businesses, from owning a club. The EFL's processes on ownership aren't fit for purpose. They're shite!
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Post by Hobhead on Aug 28, 2019 10:44:23 GMT
I’m sure I read somewhere that the EFL have admitted to not checking Dale’s fitness to own a club against their own guidelines.
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Bolton
Aug 28, 2019 10:56:48 GMT
Post by Dick on Aug 28, 2019 10:56:48 GMT
It sort of epitomises the whole business of football and captive audience - its like when you get the train to work in somewhere like the north of England - no matter how shit the service (think back 12 months ago if you're a commuter), you still need to get that train. It's not like you can pick another train company to use. Or you could spend 4 hours a day driving 10 miles and back to Leeds.
It's like that with football in a way, I know its not public transport and there's always been rich and poor, but the rules imposed by the governing bodies and the bodies themselves are absolutely atrocious, but they know their customers will just keep coming back, ready to be exploited financially.
I'd love it if there was another product or operator for competition. In football though that equivalent is a non-league side.
I don't get how in 2019 everything else is sanitised except rules for areas such as these.
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Bolton
Aug 28, 2019 10:59:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by Lethal Jizzle on Aug 28, 2019 10:59:55 GMT
Just seen Accy chairman saying the ground is now owned by a finance company According to Companies House, he is mistaken. A firm called Capital Bridging Finance (owned by the previous Bury chairman) certainly has a charge on the ground which means that they have loaned the club some money in the past and the club used Gigg Lane as security. But it doesn't mean that CBF owns it. Just to complete the picture, CBF then mortgaged the charge to a Malta based company, the ownership of which isn't obvious but I'd hazrd a guess who it is! But that still doesn't change the ownership of Gigg Lane. What's the craic about his son in law buying up the debt for 70k and now demanding 1.75million in the cva? Surely there's a bit of fraud hanging around this entire deal
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Bolton
Aug 28, 2019 11:02:00 GMT
Post by Hobhead on Aug 28, 2019 11:02:00 GMT
According to Companies House, he is mistaken. A firm called Capital Bridging Finance (owned by the previous Bury chairman) certainly has a charge on the ground which means that they have loaned the club some money in the past and the club used Gigg Lane as security. But it doesn't mean that CBF owns it. Just to complete the picture, CBF then mortgaged the charge to a Malta based company, the ownership of which isn't obvious but I'd hazrd a guess who it is! But that still doesn't change the ownership of Gigg Lane. What's the craic about his son in law buying up the debt for 70k and now demanding 1.75million in the cva? Surely there's a bit of fraud hanging around this entire deal Bury paid a firm £125k in ‘consultancy fees’. That firm turned out to be owned by Dale’s son.
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Bolton
Aug 28, 2019 11:08:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by Lethal Jizzle on Aug 28, 2019 11:08:56 GMT
What's the craic about his son in law buying up the debt for 70k and now demanding 1.75million in the cva? Surely there's a bit of fraud hanging around this entire deal Bury paid a firm £125k in ‘consultancy fees’. That firm turned out to be owned by Dale’s son. Bolton did that too, 500k to Anderson and 175k to his son it's absolutely scandalous.
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Bolton
Aug 28, 2019 11:18:21 GMT
Post by Dennis on Aug 28, 2019 11:18:21 GMT
What's the craic about his son in law buying up the debt for 70k and now demanding 1.75million in the cva? Surely there's a bit of fraud hanging around this entire deal Bury paid a firm £125k in ‘consultancy fees’. That firm turned out to be owned by Dale’s son. That's peanuts! Some of the loans which Bury took out from Dale's companies, amounting to several millions, had a management fee of 40% deducted before the club received the cash. The management fee went to some unidentified recipient via an offshore UK tax haven. Now I wonder who the recipient was?
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Bolton
Aug 28, 2019 11:27:23 GMT
Post by Hobhead on Aug 28, 2019 11:27:23 GMT
Bury paid a firm £125k in ‘consultancy fees’. That firm turned out to be owned by Dale’s son. That's peanuts! Some of the loans which Bury took out from Dale's companies, amounting to several millions, had a management fee of 40% deducted before the club received the cash. The management fee went to some unidentified recipient via an offshore UK tax haven. Now I wonder who the recipient was? I didn’t know that. Fuck me! He’s clearly bought it to kill it and steal the family silver while it’s on its deathbed. Imagine having so few scruples and morals.
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Bolton
Aug 28, 2019 11:27:53 GMT
Post by Dennis on Aug 28, 2019 11:27:53 GMT
According to Companies House, he is mistaken. A firm called Capital Bridging Finance (owned by the previous Bury chairman) certainly has a charge on the ground which means that they have loaned the club some money in the past and the club used Gigg Lane as security. But it doesn't mean that CBF owns it. Just to complete the picture, CBF then mortgaged the charge to a Malta based company, the ownership of which isn't obvious but I'd hazrd a guess who it is! But that still doesn't change the ownership of Gigg Lane. What's the craic about his son in law buying up the debt for 70k and now demanding 1.75million in the cva? Surely there's a bit of fraud hanging around this entire deal I've no idea. But it's not unusual for outstanding debts to be traded prior to a CVA but nobody can demand anything from a CVA since there's no guarantee of any cash at all being available
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Bolton
Aug 28, 2019 11:32:05 GMT
Post by Dennis on Aug 28, 2019 11:32:05 GMT
That's peanuts! Some of the loans which Bury took out from Dale's companies, amounting to several millions, had a management fee of 40% deducted before the club received the cash. The management fee went to some unidentified recipient via an offshore UK tax haven. Now I wonder who the recipient was? I didn’t know that. Fuck me! He’s clearly bought it to kill it and steal the family silver while it’s on its deathbed. Imagine having so few scruples and morals. Apologies, it was one of Day's companies who made the loans to the club where the 40% was being creamed off. It's a moot point who had the fewer scruples .. Dale or Day?
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Post by Hobhead on Aug 28, 2019 12:01:09 GMT
I didn’t know that. Fuck me! He’s clearly bought it to kill it and steal the family silver while it’s on its deathbed. Imagine having so few scruples and morals. Apologies, it was one of Day's companies who made the loans to the club where the 40% was being creamed off. It's a moot point who had the fewer scruples .. Dale or Day? One bludgeoned the club to death and the other robbed the corpse. All while the cops looked on.
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Bolton
Aug 28, 2019 12:05:57 GMT
Post by Hobhead on Aug 28, 2019 12:05:57 GMT
I’ve just listened to the woman from the EFL being asked on the radio how they plan to help Bury. Impotent. She said she’d, ‘thought about it a lot’ before going on to say they should look at the example of Wimbledon.
So her answer to her own body’s negligence was for Bury to fix it. There was not one piece of practical advice or offer of even intimation of assistance. They’re about as much use as the City Supporter’s Trust.
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Bolton
Aug 28, 2019 12:09:20 GMT
via mobile
Post by tetchyarse on Aug 28, 2019 12:09:20 GMT
Just seen Accy chairman saying the ground is now owned by a finance company According to Companies House, he is mistaken. A firm called Capital Bridging Finance (owned by the previous Bury chairman) certainly has a charge on the ground which means that they have loaned the club some money in the past and the club used Gigg Lane as security. But it doesn't mean that CBF owns it. Just to complete the picture, CBF then mortgaged the charge to a Malta based company, the ownership of which isn't obvious but I'd hazrd a guess who it is! But that still doesn't change the ownership of Gigg Lane. If the debt is secured on the ground then if the debt isn't repaid possession goes to the finance company. The debt won't be repaid, of course, as there's no money. So in effect control does pass on. The mortgagor then gets to sell the ground to their pet developer far below its market value and trebles all round. Security isn't affected by a CVA either. It's why so many dodgy chairmen "loan" money secured on the ground. It's the most efficient way of asset stripping.
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Bolton
Aug 28, 2019 12:12:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by tetchyarse on Aug 28, 2019 12:12:59 GMT
I’ve just listened to the woman from the EFL being asked on the radio how they plan to help Bury. Impotent. She said she’d, ‘thought about it a lot’ before going on to say they should look at the example of Wimbledon. So her answer to her own body’s negligence was for Bury to fix it. There was not one piece of practical advice or offer of even intimation of assistance. They’re about as much use as the City Supporter’s Trust. Until May the CEO of the Football League was Shaun Harvey, which says all you need to know. Greasier than Peter Jackson's hair, the guy is about as much use as a marzipan dildo. I would say more, but I'd hate to libel him.
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Post by Hoochy on Aug 28, 2019 13:16:30 GMT
Bit more detail here. Dennis m8, you seen like a well connected bloke. How about we set up some companies, loan each other some money we don't have, give each other fees, liquidate the companies then keep the cash.
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Bolton
Aug 28, 2019 13:28:29 GMT
Post by hobbes on Aug 28, 2019 13:28:29 GMT
Bit more detail here. Dennis m8, you seen like a well connected bloke. How about we set up some companies, loan each other some money we don't have, give each other fees, liquidate the companies then keep the cash. I could write a song about it if you like, for a small consultancy fee.
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Bolton
Aug 28, 2019 13:40:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by Hoochy on Aug 28, 2019 13:40:33 GMT
Bit more detail here. Dennis m8, you seen like a well connected bloke. How about we set up some companies, loan each other some money we don't have, give each other fees, liquidate the companies then keep the cash. I could write a song about it if you like, for a small consultancy fee. Sounds to me like you just want to make a few quid without actually doing much or deserving it at all. You're in.
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Bolton
Aug 28, 2019 14:53:04 GMT
Post by Neshead on Aug 28, 2019 14:53:04 GMT
Bury paid a firm £125k in ‘consultancy fees’. That firm turned out to be owned by Dale’s son. That's peanuts! Some of the loans which Bury took out from Dale's companies, amounting to several millions, had a management fee of 40% deducted before the club received the cash. The management fee went to some unidentified recipient via an offshore UK tax haven. Now I wonder who the recipient was? What happens now Den? Has the club as a business been officially wound up? What happens to the debt? Its clear from the info that both Day and Dale are as dodgy as fuck. Neither of them had any intention of putting money into the club for the clubs benefit, although i suspect that is the same for 99% of all football clubs. What realistically will Dale walk away with for his initial pound investment?
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Bolton
Aug 28, 2019 15:29:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by rahicscissorbudget on Aug 28, 2019 15:29:21 GMT
That's peanuts! Some of the loans which Bury took out from Dale's companies, amounting to several millions, had a management fee of 40% deducted before the club received the cash. The management fee went to some unidentified recipient via an offshore UK tax haven. Now I wonder who the recipient was? What happens now Den? Has the club as a business been officially wound up? What happens to the debt? Its clear from the info that both Day and Dale are as dodgy as fuck. Neither of them had any intention of putting money into the club for the clubs benefit, although i suspect that is the same for 99% of all football clubs. What realistically will Dale walk away with for his initial pound investment? Definitely a profit.
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Bolton
Aug 28, 2019 16:20:06 GMT
Post by Neshead on Aug 28, 2019 16:20:06 GMT
What happens now Den? Has the club as a business been officially wound up? What happens to the debt? Its clear from the info that both Day and Dale are as dodgy as fuck. Neither of them had any intention of putting money into the club for the clubs benefit, although i suspect that is the same for 99% of all football clubs. What realistically will Dale walk away with for his initial pound investment? Definitely a profit. £2? 100% mark up not to be sniffed at.
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