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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Mar 6, 2022 20:17:15 GMT
Sanctions against 16 people who hid their money a decade ago. Whoop-de-fucking-doo. We could try proper sanctions, start seizing property like the Germans and French have, but no. The London legal, financial and oroperty markets are entirely inflated with dirty Kremlin money, so we won't do that. What would the partners at Carter-Fuck say? The French, Germans and US are doing it properly. The UK? Nah. The London-on-Don Laundromat is open for business. Where was all the faux outrage when Putin 'intervened' in Syria, Georgia etc? We were fawning over him because we either had a common enemy or the target country wasn't important enough to give a fuck about. The bleeding hearts media didn't care about the humanitarian consequences then. You know as well as i do the Ukraine situation is complex than the simplistic 'goodies vs baddies' narrative pushed by our media. The only difference is Putin's attack/ intervention in Ukraine is a direct challenge to American hegemony and influence. I'm not sure petty tit for tat sanctions and anti-Russian jingoism will achieve anything other than cause more division. And didn't Germany veto/ block Ukraine joining the EU and Nato because of it's reliance on Russian gas? I don't know how much influence rich Russians have over UK politicians or financial sector but i suspect they aren't the only source of so called 'dirty money' Dunno about faux, but actually a lot of people were quite angry about those places. A lot of people are still fucked off about Chechnya (how’s that place doing nowadays btw?), and people are currently fucked off about Yemen. Just cos you don’t see it, doesn’t mean it’s not happening.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Mar 6, 2022 20:18:28 GMT
Lets deploy volunteers with improvised weapons and no combat experience against mechanised professional army battalions... ...what could possibly go wrong? What would you rather they do? Josh Wright them into Kyiv?
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Post by Bacon on Mar 6, 2022 20:19:00 GMT
Where was all the faux outrage when Putin 'intervened' in Syria, Georgia etc? We were fawning over him because we either had a common enemy or the target country wasn't important enough to give a fuck about. The bleeding hearts media didn't care about the humanitarian consequences then. You know as well as i do the Ukraine situation is complex than the simplistic 'goodies vs baddies' narrative pushed by our media. The only difference is Putin's attack/ intervention in Ukraine is a direct challenge to American hegemony and influence. I'm not sure petty tit for tat sanctions and anti-Russian jingoism will achieve anything other than cause more division. And didn't Germany veto/ block Ukraine joining the EU and Nato because of it's reliance on Russian gas? I don't know how much influence rich Russians have over UK politicians or financial sector but i suspect they aren't the only source of so called 'dirty money' I think we should have done all of this and more ten years ago, especially after Crimea/Donbas/murdering 300 people on an airliner. But Russian money is useful so the Tories weren't interested and the Germans need Russian gas. Obama was deluded enough to think he could make Putin change and as for the orange baboon succeeding him, well. It's more than the Tories in the UK though. Russian oligarchs use the High Court as weapons, both against each other and as libel tourists against awkward journalists. They hide their money in UK property. The fees they generate are astronomical. Carter-Fuck libel letters don't come cheap; great for the lawyers *and* great for the rich who can SLAPP to their heart's content. Look at Arron Banks v Carole Cadwalladr. Of course nobody in power was going to derail the gravy train. And no, it's not just Russians; all kleptocrats use the London Laundromat, great service at a great fee and you cash is laundered whiter than white. And there are serious questions about how Russia is using its influence too. How did Arron Banks get his money, what's the deal with his wife, and just *what* was Dominic Cummings doing in Moscow for all those years. How did Assange get all that gossip on Clinton but curiously not anything on Trump. And of course Corbyn and plenty of his gang were long-standing admirers of the USSR, with links eastwards, and the Stop the War Coalition seem curiously more interested in criticising NATO and "imperalism" and not the Ukrainian war victims. I wonder why. We know Vladislav Surkov, Putin's propaganda chief, funds the opposition in Russia to destabilise any opponents of Putin. www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/10/12/bbcs_adam_curtis_how_propaganda_turned_russian_politics_into_a_circus.htmlI don't think a lot of things are as easy as goodies vs baddies, but sometimes you get a leader who *is* just evil. There was no nuance with Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Augusto Pinochet. They were just evil. Of course the West didn't always act against evil, or in the case of Pinochet actually helped him, but that doesn't stop him being evil. Add Robbie Williams to that list.
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Mar 6, 2022 22:02:52 GMT
Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Mar 6, 2022 22:02:52 GMT
Lets deploy volunteers with improvised weapons and no combat experience against mechanised professional army battalions... ...what could possibly go wrong? What would you rather they do? Josh Wright them into Kyiv? I'd rather gullible idiots weren't used as cannon fodder so myopic armchair generals can fight to the last drop of other peoples' blood. Its not like playing Call of Duty. Hiding behind a wall won't protect you from a tank round. That fact our government is actively encouraging 'volunteers' to fight in Ukraine is a disgrace IMO. They have no idea what they're getting into. Let Putin install his puppet and be done with it. Or deploy the military and engage Russia directly. Thats the choice.
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Mar 6, 2022 22:12:16 GMT
Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Mar 6, 2022 22:12:16 GMT
Where was all the faux outrage when Putin 'intervened' in Syria, Georgia etc? We were fawning over him because we either had a common enemy or the target country wasn't important enough to give a fuck about. The bleeding hearts media didn't care about the humanitarian consequences then. You know as well as i do the Ukraine situation is complex than the simplistic 'goodies vs baddies' narrative pushed by our media. The only difference is Putin's attack/ intervention in Ukraine is a direct challenge to American hegemony and influence. I'm not sure petty tit for tat sanctions and anti-Russian jingoism will achieve anything other than cause more division. And didn't Germany veto/ block Ukraine joining the EU and Nato because of it's reliance on Russian gas? I don't know how much influence rich Russians have over UK politicians or financial sector but i suspect they aren't the only source of so called 'dirty money' Dunno about faux, but actually a lot of people were quite angry about those places. A lot of people are still fucked off about Chechnya (how’s that place doing nowadays btw?), and people are currently fucked off about Yemen. Just cos you don’t see it, doesn’t mean it’s not happening. Yemen? I don't see any calls for Saudi assets to be seized. I don't see Newcastle getting sold anytime soon. Yes there was dissent and anger regarding those conflicts, but our governments were either complicit or didn't give a fuck. The corporate media at best just reported them as a normal part of the news cycle with a few grumbles here and there.
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Mar 6, 2022 22:30:08 GMT
Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Mar 6, 2022 22:30:08 GMT
Lets deploy volunteers with improvised weapons and no combat experience against mechanised professional army battalions... ...what could possibly go wrong? Given Putin is deliberately shelling apartment blocks and refugee convoys, and has previously been psychopathic enough to murder 300 people on an airliner, I'd say teaching people to fight back is a good idea. Just a hunch, but I'd not trust Russia not to do a Srebrenica. I think he was referring to foreign nationals being sent to 'fight'. And even so, i'm not comfortable with forcing civilians to take up arms. I'm not sure Putin wants to engage in Balkan style ethnic cleansing. I pretty sure he'd be happy just have a puppet state and for nato to back off. I'd be more concerned about some of the far right Ukrainian nationalists. I saw some disturbing footage some of the armed gangs patrolling Kiev. They were literally dragging people out of cars and gunning them down, supposedly to enforce curfews. Yes Putin is a psycho, but so are many western leaders who've been agitating for war. The roots of the conflict go back to 2014 when Putin's puppet was overthrown in favour of western backed Zelenski. The Russians argue that people in the Donbass region were subsequently being persecuted. Around 15k russian speaking Ukranians have been murdered inc women and children, many by armed neo nazi groups. Western arms were being funnelled into the Ukranian army, funded with military aid from the west. The Ukraine itself is a cesspit of corruption. Then of course the Biden family have some very dubious business interests there. The whole thing is a geo political power play with cunts on both sides
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Mar 6, 2022 23:06:37 GMT
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Post by tetchyarse on Mar 6, 2022 23:06:37 GMT
Dunno about faux, but actually a lot of people were quite angry about those places. A lot of people are still fucked off about Chechnya (how’s that place doing nowadays btw?), and people are currently fucked off about Yemen. Just cos you don’t see it, doesn’t mean it’s not happening. Yemen? I don't see any calls for Saudi assets to be seized. I don't see Newcastle getting sold anytime soon. Yes there was dissent and anger regarding those conflicts, but our governments were either complicit or didn't give a fuck. The corporate media at best just reported them as a normal part of the news cycle with a few grumbles here and there. Yemen is complicated. The Houthis, heavily backed by Iran with money and weapons, tried to overthrow the Yemeni government, which is aligned with Saudi. The government then got Saudi Arabia and the UAE to come in to help it. It's horrific what's happening and it is very much a forgotten civil war, but it isn't one sovereign country invading another. We toady up too much to both Saudi and the UAE- and it's odd how Man City and Arsenal don't get slagged off the way Newcastle do, despite the UAE being involved in the same war on the same side- but Yemen is different to Ukraine. Funny you mention the far-right Nazi groups in Ukraine. There's strong evidence they've been funded by Putin for at least a decade, trying to stoke up unrest as a pretext for a "peacekeeping mission". I'd take any accounts about those groups with a huge dose of salt. The criticisms you've leveled are everything Putin has been saying and trying to achieve for 20 years, ever since the 2004 Orange Revolution. That was a Presidential election where the Ukrainian courts overturned Putin's electoral fraud, Putin's candidate subsequently lost, and so Putin tried to have the victor murdered with poison and left him horrifically disfigured. Very familiar. Thing is, both sides aren't as bad as each other. This is Putin settling old scores from 2004 and before. Pure evil. Almost as evil as Ed Sheeran.
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Mar 6, 2022 23:44:44 GMT
Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Mar 6, 2022 23:44:44 GMT
Yemen? I don't see any calls for Saudi assets to be seized. I don't see Newcastle getting sold anytime soon. Yes there was dissent and anger regarding those conflicts, but our governments were either complicit or didn't give a fuck. The corporate media at best just reported them as a normal part of the news cycle with a few grumbles here and there. Yemen is complicated. The Houthis, heavily backed by Iran with money and weapons, tried to overthrow the Yemeni government, which is aligned with Saudi. The government then got Saudi Arabia and the UAE to come in to help it. It's horrific what's happening and it is very much a forgotten civil war, but it isn't one sovereign country invading another. We toady up too much to both Saudi and the UAE- and it's odd how Man City don't get slagged off the way Newcastle do, despite the UAE being involved in the same war on the same side- but Yemen is different to Ukraine. Funny you mention the far-right Nazi groups in Ukraine. There's strong evidence they've been funded by Putin for at least a decade, trying to stoke up unrest as a pretext for a "peacekeeping mission". There is so much disinfo flying around from both sides it hard to gauge whats really going on without doing a deep dive. I'd read somewhere the CIA was heavily involved in the 2014 coup. I haven't heard about Putin funding neo nazis to attack ethnic Russians. Reminds me of the theory that Hamas was really a Mossad front used to radicalise Palestinians in order to justify Israeli 'interventions' in Gaza. My issue is the level of media outrage (and western response) depends on who the belligerents are rather who is doing what. The story about Zelenski 'joining the fight' in Kiev sounds about as believable as Prince Harry 'fighting' the Taliban. When in all likelihood it was just propaganda to encourage civilians to take up arms.
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Mar 7, 2022 10:13:57 GMT
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jdc and edin like this
Post by tetchyarse on Mar 7, 2022 10:13:57 GMT
Yemen is complicated. The Houthis, heavily backed by Iran with money and weapons, tried to overthrow the Yemeni government, which is aligned with Saudi. The government then got Saudi Arabia and the UAE to come in to help it. It's horrific what's happening and it is very much a forgotten civil war, but it isn't one sovereign country invading another. We toady up too much to both Saudi and the UAE- and it's odd how Man City don't get slagged off the way Newcastle do, despite the UAE being involved in the same war on the same side- but Yemen is different to Ukraine. Funny you mention the far-right Nazi groups in Ukraine. There's strong evidence they've been funded by Putin for at least a decade, trying to stoke up unrest as a pretext for a "peacekeeping mission". There is so much disinfo flying around from both sides it hard to gauge whats really going on without doing a deep dive. I'd read somewhere the CIA was heavily involved in the 2014 coup. I haven't heard about Putin funding neo nazis to attack ethnic Russians. Reminds me of the theory that Hamas was really a Mossad front used to radicalise Palestinians in order to justify Israeli 'interventions' in Gaza. My issue is the level of media outrage (and western response) depends on who the belligerents are rather who is doing what. The story about Zelenski 'joining the fight' in Kiev sounds about as believable as Prince Harry 'fighting' the Taliban. When in all likelihood it was just propaganda to encourage civilians to take up arms. Again, the Kremlin narrative is that the CIA led the 2004 and 2014 protests. There's no evidence to suggest the CIA were involved. The Kremlin-backed candidate, Victor Yanukoych, lost in 2004 after his victory was overturned after widespread vote-rigging. His opponent then got poisoned. Yanukovych then won in 2010 in a free and fair election, beating Yulia Tymoshenko. Yanukoych then had Tymoshenko thrown in prison in 2011, supposedly due to "corruption". So we have one opponent permanently disfigured by a poisoning, and another locked up in prison. Convenient for Yanukoych, the Kremlin candidate. There was no "coup" in 2014, protests rose against him in the west of Ukraine. Yanukovych had police shoot the protestors in Kyiv, then he ran away to Russia when international criticism mounted. The Ukrainian parliament voted to depose him and have new elections. As a result, Russia invaded Crimea and Donbas, Yanukoych's heartland, and where Yanukovych had just signed a treaty to let Russia have a naval base. And now we are where we are, Putin going after the west of Ukraine to teach people a lesson. Settling old scores. There's lots of "misinformation", but it's nearly all from the Kremlin. And as this thread shows, a surprising amount of it sticks. tl;dr Putin's a cunt and we should have done these sanctions ten years ago.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Mar 7, 2022 14:47:55 GMT
Given Putin is deliberately shelling apartment blocks and refugee convoys, and has previously been psychopathic enough to murder 300 people on an airliner, I'd say teaching people to fight back is a good idea. Just a hunch, but I'd not trust Russia not to do a Srebrenica. I think he was referring to foreign nationals being sent to 'fight'. And even so, i'm not comfortable with forcing civilians to take up arms. I'm not sure Putin wants to engage in Balkan style ethnic cleansing. I pretty sure he'd be happy just have a puppet state and for nato to back off. I'd be more concerned about some of the far right Ukrainian nationalists. I saw some disturbing footage some of the armed gangs patrolling Kiev. They were literally dragging people out of cars and gunning them down, supposedly to enforce curfews. Yes Putin is a psycho, but so are many western leaders who've been agitating for war. The roots of the conflict go back to 2014 when Putin's puppet was overthrown in favour of western backed Zelenski. The Russians argue that people in the Donbass region were subsequently being persecuted. Around 15k russian speaking Ukranians have been murdered inc women and children, many by armed neo nazi groups. Western arms were being funnelled into the Ukranian army, funded with military aid from the west. The Ukraine itself is a cesspit of corruption. Then of course the Biden family have some very dubious business interests there. The whole thing is a geo political power play with cunts on both sides You’d be more concerned about neo nazi gangs than the country that’s just driven a load of tanks and 100,000 soldiers into the neighbouring country? You’re more concerned about people being dragged out of cars than the army that’s bombing blocks of flats?
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Mar 7, 2022 22:34:06 GMT
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Post by desperado on Mar 7, 2022 22:34:06 GMT
Donbass is actually in the Ukraine, its like Yorkshire saying feck Westminster were forming a separate country. All the shite about donations to the Tory party ? What about hedgefund holder Martin Taylor looks after investments for the Wesvic foundation ( Russian ) who have donated £1.5m to Labour since 2016 + another £200k to the Starmer leadership campaign. Of course this isn't newsworthy nor does it meet the MSM criteria.
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Mar 8, 2022 9:27:39 GMT
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Post by tetchyarse on Mar 8, 2022 9:27:39 GMT
All the shite about donations to the Tory party ? What about hedgefund holder Martin Taylor looks after investments for the Wesvic foundation ( Russian ) who have donated £1.5m to Labour since 2016 + another £200k to the Starmer leadership campaign. Of course this isn't newsworthy nor does it meet the MSM criteria. Or it might be that there's a bit of a difference between a hedge fund with some Russian and Far East investments (Professor Google says Taylor closed it in 2018 btw) and putting an oligarch with strong links to the KGB in the actual House of Lords. That said, I do also wonder where plenty on the left get their money from. The Stop the War Coalition strangely never criticise Russia. But anything that George Galloway, with his Russian links, is involved in is almost certainly dodgy.
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Mar 8, 2022 10:55:46 GMT
Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Mar 8, 2022 10:55:46 GMT
Donbass is actually in the Ukraine, its like Yorkshire saying feck Westminster were forming a separate country. All the shite about donations to the Tory party ? What about hedgefund holder Martin Taylor looks after investments for the Wesvic foundation ( Russian ) who have donated £1.5m to Labour since 2016 + another £200k to the Starmer leadership campaign. Of course this isn't newsworthy nor does it meet the MSM criteria. I think the Donbass region was part originally part of Russia proper but was transferred to the Ukrainian SSR during the Soviet era. The idea was to increase ethnic Russian populations in the neighbouring Soviet republics by gerrymandering borders. The problem on this thread is some posters are bitter because they think Russia orchestrated Brexit, supposedly to weaken the EU. Which is why they are determined to view everything through a lens that places the current UK Government and Russian interests in the worst possible light. The idea that Russian oligarchs control the UK is laughable. While they undoubtedly buy influence, so do China, Isreal, Saudi Arabia and so on.
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Post by Bacon on Mar 8, 2022 12:40:39 GMT
Donbass is actually in the Ukraine, its like Yorkshire saying feck Westminster were forming a separate country. All the shite about donations to the Tory party ? What about hedgefund holder Martin Taylor looks after investments for the Wesvic foundation ( Russian ) who have donated £1.5m to Labour since 2016 + another £200k to the Starmer leadership campaign. Of course this isn't newsworthy nor does it meet the MSM criteria. Russians are savvy/devious enough to back both sides, they fund their own opposition ffs. It's what they do, control both sides of the argument and you control the argument.
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Mar 8, 2022 12:47:21 GMT
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Post by tetchyarse on Mar 8, 2022 12:47:21 GMT
Ah, Brexit. I was wondering when that would get mentioned. I can't dislike a venal Prime Minister for being bankrolled by a war criminal because he's a venal Prime Minister being bankrolled by a war criminal. It must be Brexit. Must be.
Maybe I'm being unfair. Maybe Putin's ex-finance Minister, Vladimir Chernukhin, paid £160,000 for his wife Lubov to play tennis with Boris Johnson because he thought Boris was Serena Williams.
It is fascinating that what you have said- Nazi gangs, Donbas being Russian until Lenin switched it, Biden, corruption, CIA infiltration, the works- is almost bang on exactly the line the Kremlin push. Goes to show that disinformation works.
Russia's aim with their political machinations is, and always has been, chaos. They've been pretty good at achieving it, Brexit and Trump have been hugely divisive and have undermined faith in democracy, on both sides. Job done.
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Mar 8, 2022 13:56:00 GMT
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Mar 8, 2022 13:56:00 GMT
Donbass is actually in the Ukraine, its like Yorkshire saying feck Westminster were forming a separate country. All the shite about donations to the Tory party ? What about hedgefund holder Martin Taylor looks after investments for the Wesvic foundation ( Russian ) who have donated £1.5m to Labour since 2016 + another £200k to the Starmer leadership campaign. Of course this isn't newsworthy nor does it meet the MSM criteria. On your first point, it’s more like Norway invading Yorkshire, claiming it was to liberate it and then shelling the fuck out of cities. On the second, labours not in government, and hasn’t been for 12 years. I don’t know enough about Martin Taylor or Wesvic to comment really, but on the facts youve laid out, that’s not the same as Boris being given money directly from oligarchs or putting oligarchs sons in the House of Lords against the advice of mi5.
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Mar 8, 2022 16:05:32 GMT
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Post by bantam147 on Mar 8, 2022 16:05:32 GMT
I had a quick Google of the most likely UK targets for Nuclear attacks by Russia, if Vlad properly loses his rag.
Bradford isn't on it.
Not much point really, eh?
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Post by hammstrasse on Mar 12, 2022 0:17:31 GMT
I had a quick Google of the most likely UK targets for Nuclear attacks by Russia, if Vlad properly loses his rag. Bradford isn't on it. Not much point really, eh? Would anyone notice? The council do a good job of knocking it down as it is, then there is your monthly mill fire. Anyhow, Twitters finest seems to be pondering if Covid masks which don't work against Covid, will be a stop gap for chemical weapons.
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Mar 12, 2022 14:08:40 GMT
Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Mar 12, 2022 14:08:40 GMT
Donbass is actually in the Ukraine, its like Yorkshire saying feck Westminster were forming a separate country. All the shite about donations to the Tory party ? What about hedgefund holder Martin Taylor looks after investments for the Wesvic foundation ( Russian ) who have donated £1.5m to Labour since 2016 + another £200k to the Starmer leadership campaign. Of course this isn't newsworthy nor does it meet the MSM criteria. Russians are savvy/devious enough to back both sides, they fund their own opposition ffs. It's what they do, control both sides of the argument and you control the argument. While the idea of 'controlled opposition' was probably concocted in the upper echelons of the Soviet politburo, it would be very naive to think the west is above the use of such dark arts. Look how the media-political establishment mobilised against wildcards like Corbyn, Sanders or Trump. Or how they fawn over 'liberal' Trudeau. Someone like Starmer is the epitome of controlled opposition. A grey dullard who rubber stamps key government legislation while 'playing it safe' with token virtue signalling without straying too much from agreed narratives. Speaking of Russian/Soviet infiltration, KGB defector Yuri Bezmanov gave some interesting talks in the 80s. He explained how the strategy was to infiltrate the academic institutions of the west, targeting useful idiots in high ranking positions (such as professors) and using them to promote political correctness and anti capitalist/ anti western ideology. The plan was that these ideas would be passed on to students who would then gradually filter into the the professions. Thus the west would gradually become demoralised, divided and weakened. KGB agents would also use more conventional methods of influencing journalists and politicians (such as wining and dining, VIP trips to the Soviet Union, flattery and simple bribery) to encourage them to view communism more favourably. You could argue this strategy has been somewhat successful.
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Mar 12, 2022 14:21:28 GMT
Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Mar 12, 2022 14:21:28 GMT
Donbass is actually in the Ukraine, its like Yorkshire saying feck Westminster were forming a separate country. All the shite about donations to the Tory party ? What about hedgefund holder Martin Taylor looks after investments for the Wesvic foundation ( Russian ) who have donated £1.5m to Labour since 2016 + another £200k to the Starmer leadership campaign. Of course this isn't newsworthy nor does it meet the MSM criteria. On your first point, it’s more like Norway invading Yorkshire, claiming it was to liberate it and then shelling the fuck out of cities. For that analogy to work, wouldn't Yorkshire have to be historically Norwegian, with mainly ethnic Norwegians who speak Norwegian?
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