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Post by Neshead on Nov 5, 2020 13:22:27 GMT
"Cancel culture" is just something right-wingers whinge about without any actual basis in reality. But it's an idea that has stuck despite having no basis in reality because right-wingers just love to play the victim card. It's like "virtue-signalling", which is just another right-wing bullshit term that means nothing, has no basis in reality, but lets them feel all victimised, the poor dears. America has been polarised for a very long time- Al Gore lost by 600 votes and a dodgy Supreme Court decision in 2000 and so we got 8 years of Dubya and the Iraq War. This election isn't new except Trump is transparent in saying he will lie and cheat if he doesn't get his own way. As for polling, the issue is that polling generally predicts national trends but elections under FPTP don't reflect national trends. Biden has already won more votes than any other challenger in history. Clinton comprehensively won the popular vote, but racked up huge wins where it didn't matter not where it counted. It's the same in the UK, it's not huge numbers of secret voters that swing elections, it's a small number of people in a small number of states/seats. Trump has done very well in the states Republucans always do well in, likewise Biden in true blue states. And the states everyone called as close have turned out to be close. But 'cancel culture' isn't just part of politics. (Maybe more doxxing? I don't know, whatever the term is) It is often the desire to ruin someone because they may have a view, opinion or make a joke about something deemed not 'morally' right - and in the digital age, its easier and more vicious to do that as they know they punishment is far greater than the crime actually being committed. But usually seen as a tool of the 'left' you're seeing the 'right' side give it back as well. It's like on Twitter - say someone makes a joke about the Bradford fire, then you have people trying to track down their employer / college etc. demanding they take action against the person because they made a sick joke. Yeah, someone saying that is a dickhead - but you don't need to ruin their life over it. We've all seen it. And employers / colleges etc know in 2020 they can be online shamed, review bombed etc. unless they are seen to take action. Or who was the commentator, Craig Ramage? Who made the comment about 'young black boys' or whatever it was - career over and ruined. Dumb thing to say and he's in a position where he definitely shouldn't say it - but people in that wider industry do far worse things (illegal things) and can be welcomed back. Im in a situation at work where I manage a few people, and one of them - 23 year old fresh out of uni - just doesn't like me as a person and a manager. I was warned by a more experienced member of staff this person had a manipulative personality, and they saw signs of gaslighting from her. She's realised if she moans and complains she gets what she wants. Very argumentative and also calculated and scheming, undermines me constantly and influencing other young members of staff. She complaints to HR about the most trivial things. Apparently I'd made a comment about an all-day meeting she was in - it was something corporate and boring, not related to our line of work at all - and I must have made a light hearted, casual sarcastic comment about her staying awake during it. She then took that comment to HR and my line manager and complained about it. Also complained about me and another manager because recommendations she'd made about improving some processes were not implemented as quickly as we said they would (because there is a much bigger situation in the world right now....). I'm now in a situation where I have to record every meeting with her because I can't risk anything being taken out of context and taken straight to HR. She want a no questions asked fuck session, I'm an expert in this sort of thing.
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Post by bantam147 on Nov 5, 2020 13:32:14 GMT
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Post by Dick on Nov 5, 2020 14:30:00 GMT
But 'cancel culture' isn't just part of politics. (Maybe more doxxing? I don't know, whatever the term is) It is often the desire to ruin someone because they may have a view, opinion or make a joke about something deemed not 'morally' right - and in the digital age, its easier and more vicious to do that as they know they punishment is far greater than the crime actually being committed. But usually seen as a tool of the 'left' you're seeing the 'right' side give it back as well. It's like on Twitter - say someone makes a joke about the Bradford fire, then you have people trying to track down their employer / college etc. demanding they take action against the person because they made a sick joke. Yeah, someone saying that is a dickhead - but you don't need to ruin their life over it. We've all seen it. And employers / colleges etc know in 2020 they can be online shamed, review bombed etc. unless they are seen to take action. Or who was the commentator, Craig Ramage? Who made the comment about 'young black boys' or whatever it was - career over and ruined. Dumb thing to say and he's in a position where he definitely shouldn't say it - but people in that wider industry do far worse things (illegal things) and can be welcomed back. Im in a situation at work where I manage a few people, and one of them - 23 year old fresh out of uni - just doesn't like me as a person and a manager. I was warned by a more experienced member of staff this person had a manipulative personality, and they saw signs of gaslighting from her. She's realised if she moans and complains she gets what she wants. Very argumentative and also calculated and scheming, undermines me constantly and influencing other young members of staff. She complaints to HR about the most trivial things. Apparently I'd made a comment about an all-day meeting she was in - it was something corporate and boring, not related to our line of work at all - and I must have made a light hearted, casual sarcastic comment about her staying awake during it. She then took that comment to HR and my line manager and complained about it. Also complained about me and another manager because recommendations she'd made about improving some processes were not implemented as quickly as we said they would (because there is a much bigger situation in the world right now....). I'm now in a situation where I have to record every meeting with her because I can't risk anything being taken out of context and taken straight to HR. I've managed people like that, too. It's horrible, you have my sympathy. It's really hard to get a grip against gaslighters, they just waste so much energy, but at least your senior colleagues know the score. I've also had countless people who've not liked a decision my organisation have made to not allow a speaker (I was a middle manager in a students' union in London for years) going straight to the papers about how "free speech" is being affected, with the usual papers making the usual noise. We were specifically ordered by the police not to allow them as they were considered extremist and it simply wasn't safe, but of course we couldn't say that, so we just got countless shitty emails. We mainly did that to Islamic extremists but also a fair few far-right extremists, which is where the papers got so noisy. Naturally the usual suspects at the usual papers weren't quite so bothered when the Islamic extremists were not allowed in. Tasteless jokes on social media are an awkward one. I now work for a government (not in the UK) and our social media policy is basically "don't say anything you wouldn't say in the office", which I think is good advice. Social media isn't the same as making a bad joke down the pub. But equally the hysterical "sack them!" lynch mobs are ridiculous. As you say, unless they're commenting in a professional capacity, there's no need to go running to their boss. Just call them a twat and move on. Thanks. Its really strange as I do look out for them - let them have AL at short notice, pick up the shitty jobs, stand up people being twats to them - and then they go the other way behind my back to HR over a throwaway comment. Indeed. I'm in a local government office with similar rules on social media, but a lot of us are explicitly told not to mention anything political, like or share anything that could be deemed as such. So yeah, just stay away from it together myself. I went through a phase years ago where I go involved in facebook politics, now I just realise it's only a waste of time and effort. But without straying too far from the post topic, theres always been a bit on animosity here and there with elections and different sides - as you say, you can trace it back to GWB and invading Afghanistan / Iraq, and you've a generation growing up who've only been really exposed to that and the division it's created - on both sides. Unfortunately it's growing here as well. Brexit, general anti-Tory rhetoric... as I said its the 'if you're not with us you're against us' mentality. I've a lot of extended family in an EU country and I've seen a lot of them fall out over politics as local politics where they are do play a huge part on your daily life, even influencing your job directly if you've a mate of a mate in power. My dad was one of 6 kids over there, and his siblings and their families have all fallen out with other over politics. As someone who gets on with all of them, it's sad to see families who live a few streets apart torn apart over voting this way or that way.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Nov 6, 2020 9:06:35 GMT
I don’t know how you can deny cancel culture exists and it’s not just ‘right wingers’ who are falling victim to it. Also ‘virtue signalling’ has nothing to do with playing the victim at all. It’s simply an accusation that a person’s protestations are either insincere and simply what they think the listener wants to hear or, more commonly, it’s when a person uses a situation to demonstrate their political credentials. You see this crap all the time and it’s often really inappropriate. You can have a really gruesome incident and a subset of people will suddenly decide that the pertinent part of it all is how they themselves feel about it. They then take full advantage of the situation by demonstrating their magnanimity over as many forms of social media as possible and sometimes they even make a sign and pop outside for a tawdry Instagram photo op. They’re self-serving vulgarians. "Cancel culture" doesn't exist. It's made-up bollocks by right-wing commentators to try and make them look like victims when they're not. There's no evidence right-wing people are being routinely fired for their political opinions. On the other hand, though, we had McCarthyism in the 60s and 70s and there's been widespread blacklisting of trade union figures in the UK construction trade. Is that "cancel culture"? No, didn't think so. "Virtue-signalling" is a nasty little term, it basically says "I don't like your opinion but I'm incapable of having a reasoned debate, so I'm going to imply you don't really hold that opinion and that you're a liar and a narcissist". It says more about the person using the term than anything else. Social media just gives a loudhailer to that boring gobshite down the pub who has an opinion on *everything*. If you take it seriously then there's no hope. I walked through town today, and the pub had a metal cut out silhouette of a world war soldier, there were little knitted poppy wreaths on top of some bollards, and big plastic poppies tied to lampposts. The butchers had a help for heroes lest we forget flag hanging off it and the weird tat shop had painted poppies on the bottom of its windows. I think that’s the kind of thing people mean when they say virtue signalling.
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Post by bantam147 on Nov 6, 2020 10:51:14 GMT
"Cancel culture" doesn't exist. It's made-up bollocks by right-wing commentators to try and make them look like victims when they're not. There's no evidence right-wing people are being routinely fired for their political opinions. On the other hand, though, we had McCarthyism in the 60s and 70s and there's been widespread blacklisting of trade union figures in the UK construction trade. Is that "cancel culture"? No, didn't think so. "Virtue-signalling" is a nasty little term, it basically says "I don't like your opinion but I'm incapable of having a reasoned debate, so I'm going to imply you don't really hold that opinion and that you're a liar and a narcissist". It says more about the person using the term than anything else. Social media just gives a loudhailer to that boring gobshite down the pub who has an opinion on *everything*. If you take it seriously then there's no hope. I walked through town today, and the pub had a metal cut out silhouette of a world war soldier, there were little knitted poppy wreaths on top of some bollards, and big plastic poppies tied to lampposts. The butchers had a help for heroes lest we forget flag hanging off it and the weird tat shop had painted poppies on the bottom of its windows. I think that’s the kind of thing people mean when they say virtue signalling. Personally, I don’t think that is virtue signalling. I think its a duty bound remembrance of those who gave their lives to protect freedoms we used to have.
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Post by Dick on Nov 6, 2020 11:21:20 GMT
I walked through town today, and the pub had a metal cut out silhouette of a world war soldier, there were little knitted poppy wreaths on top of some bollards, and big plastic poppies tied to lampposts. The butchers had a help for heroes lest we forget flag hanging off it and the weird tat shop had painted poppies on the bottom of its windows. I think that’s the kind of thing people mean when they say virtue signalling. Personally, I don’t think that is virtue signalling. I think its a duty bound remembrance of those who gave their lives to protect freedoms we used to have. In this case, agree - Virtue signalling is like during the summer when people were clapping the NHS, filming it and within seconds uploading it and sharing on social media, then shaming neighbours etc. who didn't take part in it... IMO, you do it for the attention / likes and because you're 'morally' right you can shame those who aren't.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Nov 6, 2020 11:50:33 GMT
Personally, I don’t think that is virtue signalling. I think its a duty bound remembrance of those who gave their lives to protect freedoms we used to have. In this case, agree - Virtue signalling is like during the summer when people were clapping the NHS, filming it and within seconds uploading it and sharing on social media, then shaming neighbours etc. who didn't take part in it... IMO, you do it for the attention / likes and because you're 'morally' right you can shame those who aren't. But you could just hold a minutes silence without making a big public deal of it?
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Post by Dick on Nov 6, 2020 12:14:07 GMT
In this case, agree - Virtue signalling is like during the summer when people were clapping the NHS, filming it and within seconds uploading it and sharing on social media, then shaming neighbours etc. who didn't take part in it... IMO, you do it for the attention / likes and because you're 'morally' right you can shame those who aren't. But you could just hold a minutes silence without making a big public deal of it? Lot of people don't though - unfortunately in this era where people have to document everything they do and make people aware of it, they think they're doing the right thing. Like applauding in the 56th minute, or chanting 'Always rememeber the 56' - to the tune of Tom Hark. So dignified.
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Post by Hoochy on Nov 6, 2020 16:08:02 GMT
Trump's not going to go quietly is he?
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Post by Hobhead on Nov 6, 2020 16:22:02 GMT
Trump's not going to go quietly is he? Not a prayer and I don’t think he’s bullshitting either. I think he genuinely believes he’s been fraudulently cheated out of the presidency.
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Post by bantam147 on Nov 6, 2020 17:30:40 GMT
Sit back and get the popcorn ready.
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Post by tetchyarse on Nov 6, 2020 19:27:25 GMT
Trump's not going to go quietly is he? Not a prayer and I don’t think he’s bullshitting either. I think he genuinely believes he’s been fraudulently cheated out of the presidency. The media have always laughed about Trump, thinking he was just saying these things. But no, he's always been deadly serious. He's an unhinged narcissist.
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Post by bantam147 on Nov 6, 2020 19:46:51 GMT
Not a prayer and I don’t think he’s bullshitting either. I think he genuinely believes he’s been fraudulently cheated out of the presidency. The media have always laughed about Trump, thinking he was just saying these things. But no, he's always been deadly serious. He's an unhinged narcissist. He’s a loon. But, to be fair, he’s probably the only politician I can think of who actually does what he says he’s going to do. At least you know what you’re getting. And he’s the first president in what, 50 years?, to not take them into a war. So how unhinged is he compared to previous incumbents....?
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Post by Hoochy on Nov 6, 2020 20:02:36 GMT
Not a prayer and I don’t think he’s bullshitting either. I think he genuinely believes he’s been fraudulently cheated out of the presidency. The media have always laughed about Trump, thinking he was just saying these things. But no, he's always been deadly serious. He's an unhinged narcissist. They're the best kind.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Nov 6, 2020 20:22:34 GMT
Can we ask the important question now: does trump only mean fart in my family or is it a Bradford thing?
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Post by Bacon on Nov 6, 2020 20:28:31 GMT
Can we ask the important question now: does trump only mean fart in my family or is it a Bradford thing? Just yours m8. Keffing around these parts.
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Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Nov 6, 2020 22:05:38 GMT
Trump's not going to go quietly is he? Not a prayer and I don’t think he’s bullshitting either. I think he genuinely believes he’s been fraudulently cheated out of the presidency. I stayed up quite late on election night, at one point it looked like a nailed on Trump landlside. I thought my £20 bet was money in bank. Then key states where Trump was ahead started dragging their feet, 'pausing' counts, people being sent home etc etc Almost as if someone was trying to buy time... Then the next morning blocks of postal ballots being dumped in said states with just enough Biden votes to swing it in Biden's favour. All kinds of anecdotal reports of unsupervised counting, backdated ballots, 125yr olds voting etc etc I like to think my instincts are pretty good when it comes to politics, and i don't think for one moment more people voted for feckless Biden (which is being reported) than for Obama in 2008, even factoring in the leftie loons. I didn't sense any enthusiasm for Biden amongst normal people. Even people i know who don't like Trump were kind of 'better the devil you know'. I've got american relatives who are generally pro Trump, some enthusiastically so. There is no way blocks of votes just appear days after the election. In all the elections i've lived through i've never, ever known large blocks of votes coming in days after overwhelmingly for one candidate. Of course you might get a delay with ex pat or servicemen postal votes, but not in these numbers. I'm not particularly pro or anti Trump, but gauging the blanket anti Trump hysteria since 2016, then witnessing how our establishment closed ranks to try and overturn Brexit, i don't think it is unreasonable to assume the 2020 US election was rigged against Trump.
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Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Nov 6, 2020 23:16:40 GMT
Cancel Culture is predominant amongst the left, not the right. As for Virtue signalling - those that do it, dont recognise it as such. Division isnt new - it's the outright intolerance and inability to have a civil discussion whilst disagreeing that's become dangerous. I think you get similar personality types at both political extremes. Arseholes who use emotion as a psychological weapon, detonating virtue bombs like flash grenades to kill rational debate. Covid has bred legions of these cunts. "Why are we destoying the economy for a virus that is harmless to most people?" "HOW WOULD YOUUUUU FEEL IF YYYOUR GRAN DIED OF COVID!!!!!" I think the problem now is 'virtue signalling' is where the money is. It's incentivised Local councils employing 'diversity officers' circa £40k (Kirklees) whilst front line services are cut. £45k to drive around lobbying businesses to plant trees (not joking, also public sector) Thats just the tip of the iceberg of mickey mouse jobs up for grabs. And all while the real economy goes down the pan. Then you get the usual politicians and talking heads who've forged lucrative careers from 'fighting for whats right' Is it any wonder so many people have suddenly discovered they are deeply passionate about 'good causes'?
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Post by Hobhead on Nov 7, 2020 6:13:36 GMT
Not a prayer and I don’t think he’s bullshitting either. I think he genuinely believes he’s been fraudulently cheated out of the presidency. The media have always laughed about Trump, thinking he was just saying these things. But no, he's always been deadly serious. He's an unhinged narcissist. I’m not so sure. I think he’s a very mixed bag but to me his biggest failing is an inability to recognise his own limitations. Instead of admitting he doesn’t know something or moving swiftly on he tries to hide his ignorance by rambling. This is where you get all his greatest idiotic quotes. He also appears to be actively trolling at times deliberately going out to simply piss people off and other times he’ll say what his base wants to hear - often being sincere but sometimes not. In this instance though I think he genuinely believes he’s been cheated. He won’t just be awkward, he’ll fight to the bitter end and I’m not sure anything will be off the table.
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Post by Hoochy on Nov 7, 2020 18:22:07 GMT
So Biden's won it but Trump won't accept it. What happens next?
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