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Post by Hobhead on Nov 4, 2020 6:58:24 GMT
It’s tight but Trump is squeaking into pool position. The adult tantrums will be spectacular if he takes it. Taking Florida was huge.
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Post by Hobhead on Nov 4, 2020 7:41:48 GMT
Orange Man’s got it in the bag.
Please post classic tantrums in this thread.
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Post by Lofty on Nov 4, 2020 7:46:33 GMT
People are shamed into not showing their support for Trump.
However there's no cancel culture or abuse in the voting booth and it shows.
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Post by Lofty on Nov 4, 2020 7:47:38 GMT
How the Democrats can't find a worthy candidate to run is amazing.
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Post by Hobhead on Nov 4, 2020 8:11:54 GMT
How the Democrats can't find a worthy candidate to run is amazing. They’ll be wailing and gnashing their teeth but they’re responsible for Trump. They put Hillary against him despite her being despised and mistrusted by a large slice of the American public and this time they’ve put Creepy Uncle Joe up. A man famous for senility and sniffing kids. It’s almost like they don’t want power.
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Post by Dick on Nov 4, 2020 8:46:33 GMT
Can't stand our own politics, nevermind theirs.
Saying that, is DT actually a bad president? Yes, we get all the sensationalist quotes and Tweets that make him look like an idiot, but in terms of actual policy he must be doing something right? Not like George Galloway when he was voted in in Bradford... People scorn Americans / rednecks for being thick, racist, etc. but surely he has to appeal more than that - certainly for a 2nd term anyway.
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Post by Neshead on Nov 4, 2020 8:51:46 GMT
The fall out if Trump wins will be spectacular, the country is already split. The fact this is the biggest turnout in a century shows how much Trump polarised opinion. A huge number want him out but huge number want him in.
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Post by bantam147 on Nov 4, 2020 9:26:18 GMT
FOUR. MORE. YEARS.
I still think Biden will pip him.
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Post by bantam147 on Nov 4, 2020 9:32:09 GMT
Can't stand our own politics, nevermind theirs. Saying that, is DT actually a bad president? Yes, we get all the sensationalist quotes and Tweets that make him look like an idiot, but in terms of actual policy he must be doing something right? Not like George Galloway when he was voted in in Bradford... People scorn Americans / rednecks for being thick, racist, etc. but surely he has to appeal more than that - certainly for a 2nd term anyway. The US is polarized like never before. The left is getting nosier and crazier by the day over there. Seriously - have you seen some of the shit that goes on in their college campuses? Taking aside the fact that he comes across as a loon, there's no denying that their economy has performed more strongly under Trump than Obama. And he's the first US president in decades not to start a foreign war. Those 2 things will carry a lot of sway. Added to which the US has a history of being more Republican than Democratic - when things turn to shit, I think the centrists tend to err more on the side of conservatism. We see the same thing here. But yeah, there'll be carnage on the streets of the US in the days and weeks to come.
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Post by Dick on Nov 4, 2020 10:08:59 GMT
Can't stand our own politics, nevermind theirs. Saying that, is DT actually a bad president? Yes, we get all the sensationalist quotes and Tweets that make him look like an idiot, but in terms of actual policy he must be doing something right? Not like George Galloway when he was voted in in Bradford... People scorn Americans / rednecks for being thick, racist, etc. but surely he has to appeal more than that - certainly for a 2nd term anyway. The US is polarized like never before. The left is getting nosier and crazier by the day over there. Seriously - have you seen some of the shit that goes on in their college campuses? Taking aside the fact that he comes across as a loon, there's no denying that their economy has performed more strongly under Trump than Obama. And he's the first US president in decades not to start a foreign war. Those 2 things will carry a lot of sway. Added to which the US has a history of being more Republican than Democratic - when things turn to shit, I think the centrists tend to err more on the side of conservatism. We see the same thing here. But yeah, there'll be carnage on the streets of the US in the days and weeks to come. Yeah, seen some of what's going on there. Look more and more like something from a dystopian film each day. That's the problem with a country so big with so many pockets of isolation and populations you get such polarisation - but its the 'if you're not with us you're against us' mentality that is tearing it apart. 'Cancel culture' has also played its part; you saw the infancy of it with the Brexit vote / first Trump election - where so many people were patronised and villanised for so long for having views that were not 'morally' right , but in the end it pushed more people to voting for the controversial option. Since then you've seen people with controversial / unpopular comments or opinions have their professions and lives ruined because the left know they can't do anything else other than shout the other side into submission. I really dislike how we have such an interest in America in terms of culture over here and adapted so much as own as their problems become our problems - even when not relevant at all. But if Trump offers better trade options for us as a nation and a region, then I'd love to see him stay.
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Post by Hobhead on Nov 4, 2020 10:30:05 GMT
Swinging back to Biden now. Postal votes are overwhelmingly in favour of Democrats.
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Post by Dick on Nov 4, 2020 10:57:53 GMT
I... I don't get it? For decades we've had the US preach to the world about the benefits of democracy, so much to the point where they actually invade other countries to the cost of millions of lives, caused civil wars and destroyed so much...
But then in their own country, in a fair election and the will of the people, they elect someone with some spicy views - then the other side they piss and whinge and cry and moan and complain incessantly about it for years.
Is the point of democracy accepting the other side if they win? Not descending into disorder and chaos because you haven't got you way?
Not a great advert for what they've tried to impose across the world for so long...
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Post by bantam147 on Nov 4, 2020 11:01:06 GMT
The US is polarized like never before. The left is getting nosier and crazier by the day over there. Seriously - have you seen some of the shit that goes on in their college campuses? Taking aside the fact that he comes across as a loon, there's no denying that their economy has performed more strongly under Trump than Obama. And he's the first US president in decades not to start a foreign war. Those 2 things will carry a lot of sway. Added to which the US has a history of being more Republican than Democratic - when things turn to shit, I think the centrists tend to err more on the side of conservatism. We see the same thing here. But yeah, there'll be carnage on the streets of the US in the days and weeks to come. Yeah, seen some of what's going on there. Look more and more like something from a dystopian film each day. That's the problem with a country so big with so many pockets of isolation and populations you get such polarisation - but its the 'if you're not with us you're against us' mentality that is tearing it apart. 'Cancel culture' has also played its part; you saw the infancy of it with the Brexit vote / first Trump election - where so many people were patronised and villanised for so long for having views that were not 'morally' right , but in the end it pushed more people to voting for the controversial option. Since then you've seen people with controversial / unpopular comments or opinions have their professions and lives ruined because the left know they can't do anything else other than shout the other side into submission. I really dislike how we have such an interest in America in terms of culture over here and adapted so much as own as their problems become our problems - even when not relevant at all. But if Trump offers better trade options for us as a nation and a region, then I'd love to see him stay. You're right about the size. Its an enormous country with many different sub-cultures. I have family in New England and I used to work for a company based in Atlanta. In both cases, we're talking about intelligent, educated and professional people. But the differences in outlook and political beliefs were huge. And both could speak articulately as to their views. And you're spot on about Cancel culture too. There's a huge intolerance for differing opinions; in general we used to be able to 'agree to disagree' more commonly. Now, you have people ending relationships, trying (and succeeding) to get people fired, committing acts of verbal and physical abuse - just because of the party that someone has voted for! Its why the exit polls in 2016 and this year have drastically underestimated peoples support of Trump. They just don't admit to it publicly, they stay silent and then cast their vote.
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Post by bantam147 on Nov 4, 2020 11:18:27 GMT
I... I don't get it? For decades we've had the US preach to the world about the benefits of democracy, so much to the point where they actually invade other countries to the cost of millions of lives, caused civil wars and destroyed so much... But then in their own country, in a fair election and the will of the people, they elect someone with some spicy views - then the other side they piss and whinge and cry and moan and complain incessantly about it for years. Is the point of democracy accepting the other side if they win? Not descending into disorder and chaos because you haven't got you way? Not a great advert for what they've tried to impose across the world for so long... What the US really needed to heal some of the division, was a landslide victory either way. It isn't. There's barely a cock hair in it and it keeps ebbing and flowing either way in terms of who looks like winning. And Trump will stick to his word in going to the supreme court too. So it could be weeks before a result is confirmed - and almost certainly there'll be widespread disorder on the streets during that time.
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Post by Hobhead on Nov 4, 2020 11:32:14 GMT
I... I don't get it? For decades we've had the US preach to the world about the benefits of democracy, so much to the point where they actually invade other countries to the cost of millions of lives, caused civil wars and destroyed so much... But then in their own country, in a fair election and the will of the people, they elect someone with some spicy views - then the other side they piss and whinge and cry and moan and complain incessantly about it for years. Is the point of democracy accepting the other side if they win? Not descending into disorder and chaos because you haven't got you way? Not a great advert for what they've tried to impose across the world for so long... What the US really needed to heal some of the division, was a landslide victory either way. It isn't. There's barely a cock hair in it and it keeps ebbing and flowing either way in terms of who looks like winning. And Trump will stick to his word in going to the supreme court too. So it could be weeks before a result is confirmed - and almost certainly there'll be widespread disorder on the streets during that time. This is so close it’ll rumble on for months whichever way it goes.
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Post by Hobhead on Nov 4, 2020 11:44:55 GMT
Wisconsin on a knife edge. They'll be arguing over it and Pennsylvania for months.
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Post by Hobhead on Nov 4, 2020 12:30:10 GMT
I reckon Biden takes Wisconsin, Michigan and Nevada and that’s enough for the win.
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Post by Dick on Nov 4, 2020 12:49:50 GMT
Yeah, seen some of what's going on there. Look more and more like something from a dystopian film each day. That's the problem with a country so big with so many pockets of isolation and populations you get such polarisation - but its the 'if you're not with us you're against us' mentality that is tearing it apart. 'Cancel culture' has also played its part; you saw the infancy of it with the Brexit vote / first Trump election - where so many people were patronised and villanised for so long for having views that were not 'morally' right , but in the end it pushed more people to voting for the controversial option. Since then you've seen people with controversial / unpopular comments or opinions have their professions and lives ruined because the left know they can't do anything else other than shout the other side into submission. I really dislike how we have such an interest in America in terms of culture over here and adapted so much as own as their problems become our problems - even when not relevant at all. But if Trump offers better trade options for us as a nation and a region, then I'd love to see him stay. You're right about the size. Its an enormous country with many different sub-cultures. I have family in New England and I used to work for a company based in Atlanta. In both cases, we're talking about intelligent, educated and professional people. But the differences in outlook and political beliefs were huge. And both could speak articulately as to their views. And you're spot on about Cancel culture too. There's a huge intolerance for differing opinions; in general we used to be able to 'agree to disagree' more commonly. Now, you have people ending relationships, trying (and succeeding) to get people fired, committing acts of verbal and physical abuse - just because of the party that someone has voted for! Its why the exit polls in 2016 and this year have drastically underestimated peoples support of Trump. They just don't admit to it publicly, they stay silent and then cast their vote. It's 21st century tribalist savagery - the desire and eagerness to publicly shame and ruin people's lives; and the disorder you see at rallies - it just the same as the violence and trouble you see in more hostile parts of the world, the ones the US are have supposedly spent decades, wars and billions of dollars trying to educate abut this. It's humanity reverting back to it's primitive tribal instinct, manifesting with democracy as a smokescreen.
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Post by bantam147 on Nov 4, 2020 21:52:49 GMT
Its starting to get very, very messy. And this is just the start.
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Post by tetchyarse on Nov 4, 2020 21:55:40 GMT
"Cancel culture" is just something right-wingers whinge about without any actual basis in reality. But it's an idea that has stuck despite having no basis in reality because right-wingers just love to play the victim card. It's like "virtue-signalling", which is just another right-wing bullshit term that means nothing, has no basis in reality, but lets them feel all victimised, the poor dears.
America has been polarised for a very long time- Al Gore lost by 600 votes and a dodgy Supreme Court decision in 2000 and so we got 8 years of Dubya and the Iraq War. This election isn't new except Trump is transparent in saying he will lie and cheat if he doesn't get his own way.
As for polling, the issue is that polling generally predicts national trends but elections under FPTP don't reflect national trends. Biden has already won more votes than any other challenger in history. Clinton comprehensively won the popular vote, but racked up huge wins where it didn't matter not where it counted.
It's the same in the UK, it's not huge numbers of secret voters that swing elections, it's a small number of people in a small number of states/seats. Trump has done very well in the states Republucans always do well in, likewise Biden in true blue states. And the states everyone called as close have turned out to be close.
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