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Post by bantam147 on Dec 23, 2019 16:32:39 GMT
Huge talking point at the minute.
Interested in the views of others. My own opinion, based on game days at VP, is that there are far fewer instances of Racism being on display that at ever before.
Is racism getting worse? Or is it just getting more media attention than ever before?
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Post by Lethal Jizzle on Dec 23, 2019 16:53:39 GMT
There's been an increase in reported racism, and with the amount of mobiles/cameras/microphones I doubt it will stop. Racism always has and always will happen, there's no way of stopping it in society. In football terms the only way of getting it out is behind closed door games for those clubs responsible. Docking points or fines aren't the solution and especially docking points with footballers being punished for things retards do at games.
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Post by bantam147 on Dec 23, 2019 17:09:31 GMT
I guess that's my point. Reported racism has increased but is that because it's happening more, or because is rightly becoming less tolerant and calling it out? I think it's the latter, despite media coverage insisting that 'we're no doing enough about it'. I'm not sure what 'doing enough' looks like.
The coverage on SSN has been almost entirely dominated by the incident at Tottenham yesterday. Now I'm not being dismissive, but it was an incident centred around 1 moron. And we're talking about players walking off the pitch when that happens. In a ground of 65k fans, how do you ever stop 1 person being a cunt?
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Post by Lofty on Dec 23, 2019 17:19:16 GMT
I think social media has a lot to answer for. You can be anonymous on Twitter and just call people whatever you want and get away with it. I think this is creeping into 'real life' as well.
People seem to be getting 'braver' but hopefully people being more willing to call people out, CCTV, microphones etc will soon nip it in the bud.
I'm not sure punishing clubs would help cos if you're stupid enough to actually do a monkey chant at somebody then I doubt you're intelligent enough to care about your club and other fans suffering.
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Post by Neshead on Dec 23, 2019 18:00:46 GMT
I guess that's my point. Reported racism has increased but is that because it's happening more, or because is rightly becoming less tolerant and calling it out? I think it's the latter, despite media coverage insisting that 'we're no doing enough about it'. I'm not sure what 'doing enough' looks like. The coverage on SSN has been almost entirely dominated by the incident at Tottenham yesterday. Now I'm not being dismissive, but it was an incident centred around 1 moron. And we're talking about players walking off the pitch when that happens. In a ground of 65k fans, how do you ever stop 1 person being a cunt? Only my own view but not really that bothered. Has always ben there and always will be, part of human nature. Bloke makes monkey chants, social media goes into total meltdown. You'll never rid the world of unintelligent fuckwits, wearing kick it out t shirts or banning people caught doing it will not change their mind set. 1 cunt out of 60,000 does not constitute a major problem.
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Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Dec 23, 2019 21:24:16 GMT
Getting angry at a fuckwit for being a fuckwit is like getting angry at a dog for barking or a baby for shitting its nappy.
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Post by Nice boy on Dec 24, 2019 7:20:23 GMT
Getting angry at a fuckwit for being a fuckwit is like getting angry at a dog for barking or a baby for shitting its nappy. Just like a vandal vandalising, a rapist raping, a muderer mudering, a pedo touching kids or Cougar thumping his ex wife. It's to be expected really, so there's no point making a fuss about it. Before you misunderstand the point, no I'm not suggesting that monkey chanting is as serious as some of the above. Merely pointing out that the predictability of something is hardly a yardstick for the amount of anger it should receive.
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Post by Hobhead on Dec 24, 2019 8:24:04 GMT
Not really relevant to the wider debate as such but I’ve never heard or seen a single racist incident in all my years watching City (going back to about ‘86, ‘87).
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Post by Neshead on Dec 24, 2019 8:37:33 GMT
Not really relevant to the wider debate as such but I’ve never heard or seen a single racist incident in all my years watching City (going back to about ‘86, ‘87). Neither have i, we must live sheltered lives eh? Living in supposed hotbed of racial tension in Bradford the only incidents i've seen first hand was a 3 year old calling my wifes nephew a black bastard on Holme Wood, my wife being verbally abused by an asian near John Street Market and a full scale brawl against a Pakistani cricket side about 25 years ago. Oh i tell a lie, a old bloke in the kop in the 80s (used to call John Hendrie Henry) abusing opposition black players. When pulled on it and that we had black players he said it doesn't count if they play for us.
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Post by Neshead on Dec 24, 2019 8:42:21 GMT
Getting angry at a fuckwit for being a fuckwit is like getting angry at a dog for barking or a baby for shitting its nappy. Just like a vandal vandalising, a rapist raping, a muderer mudering, a pedo touching kids or Cougar thumping his ex wife. It's to be expected really, so there's no point making a fuss about it. Before you misunderstand the point, no I'm not suggesting that monkey chanting is as serious as some of the above. Merely pointing out that the predictability of something is hardly a yardstick for the amount of anger it should receive. I stopped getting angry about these things ages ago. Why? Because you cannot stop it. You can sentence people, try and educate and rehabilitate, be nicey nice with people or shout and ball at them. Makes no difference. Its what you realise as you become old and decrepit, the world under the surface is a fucked up place. Wearing slogan emblazoned t shirts and stamping your feet on social media makes a blind bit of notice.
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Post by Nice boy on Dec 24, 2019 9:16:20 GMT
Just like a vandal vandalising, a rapist raping, a muderer mudering, a pedo touching kids or Cougar thumping his ex wife. It's to be expected really, so there's no point making a fuss about it. Before you misunderstand the point, no I'm not suggesting that monkey chanting is as serious as some of the above. Merely pointing out that the predictability of something is hardly a yardstick for the amount of anger it should receive. I stopped getting angry about these things ages ago. Why? Because you cannot stop it. You can sentence people, try and educate and rehabilitate, be nicey nice with people or shout and ball at them. Makes no difference. Its what you realise as you become old and decrepit, the world under the surface is a fucked up place. Wearing slogan emblazoned t shirts and stamping your feet on social media makes a blind bit of notice. I wasn't particularly offended either, mainly because I'm not black and there's no reason for me to be. The guy is a cunt though, I'm hardly going to complain at society projecting bile and anger in his direction. Why should fuckwits be excused just because they are fuckwits? I'm not suggesting we all write essays on social media expressing faux outrage, which is obviously what's happening, but I don't agree with an attitude of acceptance/allowance simply because it's part and parcel of everyday life either. It's not so much about whether we should be offended or not, but the logic used to decide the level of offence. If you to take the "racists will be racists, it's always going to happen attitude" and apply it elsewhere even you and NickKitchensSideBitch will probably have a limit. What at are your thoughts on Muderers? Or Grooming gangs? Or perhaps the politicians to think should be held accountable?
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Post by Pyongyang Bantam on Dec 24, 2019 9:29:07 GMT
I remember a couple years back going to Hamburg. I was on a commuter train and heard an old german guy telling a group if black guys to ‘go back to Africa’. He wasn’t subtle about it either. This kind of explicit racism is thankfully quite rare in this country. Our ‘brand’ of racism tends to be in the form of indirect passive aggressive remarks, often qualified with ‘i’m not racist but...’
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Post by The Granby Mullet on Dec 24, 2019 15:23:26 GMT
Not really relevant to the wider debate as such but I’ve never heard or seen a single racist incident in all my years watching City (going back to about ‘86, ‘87). Me neither in regards to blatant abusive racism at a player. The only thing I can remember is when Harpal Singh played for us. He took a corner and a bloke shouted " don't let him take a corner, he'll build a fucking shop on it." Was said in a jokey manner with no aggression and the whole blocked pissed themselves along with the stewards. Wonder if it would get a different reaction nowadays?
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Post by Bacon on Dec 24, 2019 15:57:00 GMT
You may recall that I heard racism a couple of seasons back when the scummy couple behind me described a black member of the catering staff in monkey terms. It wasn't shouted at him or anything, was just a comment between themselves. Still shocked me though.
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Post by Dick on Jun 9, 2020 9:54:41 GMT
Lot going on today about the lack of black managers in English football. Only 3 out of 92 at the moment. Thing is... How many black managers actually apply for jobs? In response to that, you know someone would say 'there's no point bothering as they're up against the system'. But you'd expect them to at least apply before saying they're not given a chance. What percentage of black/white footballers actually go into management? How many actually want to go into it in the first place - it's highly stressful with the levels of expectation and scrutiny and very few people in general would even want the role to begin with. With 92 league clubs, thats only 92 managers at any one time - one of the narrowest employment fields in the country. What are the facts like for black/white footballers after careers are over? As is, how many stay in the game and do what - coaching, scouting, pundit etc, and how many do something completely different? Even though there is a huge white majority, how many managers are even English or British? Certainly at the top level. Is there racism there? Possibly, but not in the way it's been portrayed. Do some clubs think about their brand appeal across the world, particularly in places where that are far more intolerant but much larger markets (e.g parts of Asia and the Far East). Don't forget, this is one of the markets the West is trying to break into with the Chinese Star Wars poster....
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Post by bantam147 on Jun 9, 2020 15:22:42 GMT
Football is a capitalist, ruthless business. Racists incidents occur in the stands, though very rarely in this country I would suggest. I can’t remember the last time I witnessed anything racist at first hand in a football stadium.
If the fact that 3 of 92 football managers being black is a relevant statistic, so is half - literally - of the last England squad being black.
I genuinely don’t think football clubs give a shit - they’ll go with whoever is the best option for winning.
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Post by tetchyarse on Jun 24, 2020 20:42:56 GMT
Lot going on today about the lack of black managers in English football. Only 3 out of 92 at the moment. Thing is... How many black managers actually apply for jobs? In response to that, you know someone would say 'there's no point bothering as they're up against the system'. But you'd expect them to at least apply before saying they're not given a chance. What percentage of black/white footballers actually go into management? How many actually want to go into it in the first place - it's highly stressful with the levels of expectation and scrutiny and very few people in general would even want the role to begin with. With 92 league clubs, thats only 92 managers at any one time - one of the narrowest employment fields in the country. What are the facts like for black/white footballers after careers are over? As is, how many stay in the game and do what - coaching, scouting, pundit etc, and how many do something completely different? Even though there is a huge white majority, how many managers are even English or British? Certainly at the top level. Is there racism there? Possibly, but not in the way it's been portrayed. Do some clubs think about their brand appeal across the world, particularly in places where that are far more intolerant but much larger markets (e.g parts of Asia and the Far East). Don't forget, this is one of the markets the West is trying to break into with the Chinese Star Wars poster.... I think there is racism in management recruitment. I firmly believe the likes of Ince or even Sol Campbell would have started higher up the pyramid if they'd been white. I know Sol Campbell is batshit crazy, but so was Di Canio, difference was Campbell had to start at Macclesfield. I also know Ince wasn't very good, but nor is Steve Bruce and it doesn't stop him getting jobs. When we took on Kamara we were unusual for having a black manager. Sad thing is, we still would be now.
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Post by rahicscissorbudget on Jun 25, 2020 11:14:06 GMT
There’s twice as many Asians in Britain than black people, how many are involved in football?
Edit: I’m not saying there isn’t a problem with racism toward black people in football. I’ve just always found it weird that that’s what the focus is.
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Post by Hobhead on Jun 25, 2020 12:48:39 GMT
There’s twice as many Asians in Britain than black people, how many are involved in football? Edit: I’m not saying there isn’t a problem with racism toward black people in football. I’ve just always found it weird that that’s what the focus is. The standard explanation there is usually a cultural cricket obsession but that’s bollocks in my opinion. They were football mad when I went to school and I left nearly thirty years ago.
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Post by Neshead on Jun 25, 2020 16:00:00 GMT
There’s twice as many Asians in Britain than black people, how many are involved in football? Edit: I’m not saying there isn’t a problem with racism toward black people in football. I’ve just always found it weird that that’s what the focus is. The standard explanation there is usually a cultural cricket obsession but that’s bollocks in my opinion. They were football mad when I went to school and I left nearly thirty years ago. Its weird, its not like they don't like football or don't play it, and there was always good Asian teams at amateur levels when i played. Not sure what holds them back from progressing to the professional game, probably racist white people.
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